[Jim Moonan]

Excerpted from poem The Refugees: "We must shape here a new philosophy."


I am trying to stay out of the back and forth, but did want to stop in to say I think we will be ok.
What I fear most is complacency. Trumpism has given legs to confrontation which I believe to be healthy - at least healthier than complacency.

Andrew F.'s poem posted says as much. So does Yeats' Second Coming (though implied). Complacency is a tough animal to rouse.

Let the confrontation take place. The real question left to be answered is, how will we emerge from the confrontation? A better, more perfect place? Will it be at the expense of a generation?
We the people. We are a strange dichotomy of damnation and enlightenment. Confront. Reform.

[Jim Moonan]

Btw, hindsight is 20/20. The Obama policies in the Middle East were prudent, more or less, given the volatile situation there.

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

I think you can say Obama's policies in the region were expected or maybe determined by the past or that the form of the State he entered worked better at changing him than he did at changing it on the front in question. Prudent is a hard sell. Waffling, or compromising to the point of a well meaning betrayal of his Cairo speech would be better here. He took control of a hammer. He found nails. By nails I mean dead middle eastern civilians. A fair few stamped Made in America. Tough job no doubt but....

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

Yeah... this is a thing:

https://www.autostraddle.com/i-was-t...essiah-367057/

From someone who grew up in this movement:

"Christofascists have been wanting someone like Pence in the White House and, until now, didn’t have a way to get one in. They know Trump is easily manipulated and will change his mind with the wind if it makes him feel more powerful and famous. Trump couldn’t care less about policy, a fact he’s made quite obvious. The Right has given a tyrant power and fame; he will do whatever they want him to do in order to keep it. This way they can sneak Pence in on a piggyback while filling Congress with even more evangelical conservative Republicans. Compared to Trump’s abrasive and terrifying behavior, Pence seems much less threatening. This is not the case. Pence has a proven track record of legalizing discrimination and acting against women and marginalized people. Those of us who didn’t leave the far Right are being elected to federal positions or are taking over states and cities. With Pence in office, even the reasonable-seeming incumbents – who have been and are still at the mercy of the Tea Party – are growing more bold in their attempts to further the Christofascist agenda: To Take Back The Country For Christ."

[Nigel Mace]

Read this already today, Andrew. Scary - if only half true! I have more respect for Richard Dawkins every day.

[Jim Moonan]

Andrew M. That says it perfectly.

I heard someone say, in response to Bannon’s statement that the media is the opposition party, that the real opposition party is truth. The Truth.

Here is a letter from the NYT opinion pages yesterday on the Trump/alt right agenda:

To the Editor:
Re “Top Strategist Cast Media as ‘Opposition Party’ ” (front page, Jan. 27):

Stephen Bannon says the media “don’t understand this country,” following Donald Trump’s comment that journalists are “among the most dishonest people on earth” (this from the most blatantly dishonest president this country has ever elected).
I am tired of hearing that Mr. Trump, Mr. Bannon and their ilk “understand this country.” What they understand is how to manipulate angry and disaffected voters to believe they care about them when actually what they care about is imposing a small-minded, racist and nationalistic agenda that the majority of Americans reject.
For the sake of this imperiled democracy, the media must keep speaking truth to power.

ELIZABETH CRABTREE
Oakland, Calif.

[Brian Allgar]

Charlie, you seem to be in favour of Trump's selective ban on Muslim immigrants. What, then, do you make of the fact that it doesn't apply to countries with which he has business dealings, and that the 9/11 terrorists all came from those countries, and not from the ones to which the ban applies? Does it mean that Trump welcomes Muslims (including terrorists) provided they're from countries where he makes money? If not, please explain these remarkable and disquieting facts.

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

Originally Posted by Nigel Mace

Read this already today, Andrew. Scary - if only half true! I have more respect for Richard Dawkins every day.

I hear you, Nigel. For me Dawkins would scrub the walls of Lascaux clean thinking the problem is the fulcrum of the soul rather than the lever of the will to control. But I can understand the attraction given the stencils that are presently masking as Spirit.

[Max Goodman]

Anyone inclined to try explaining the dangers of Trump's policies to their supporters might want to read this, based on a study by Brian Schaffner and Samantha Luks, first:

Trump Supporters Refuse to Believe Their Own Eyes

[Julie Steiner]

Sorry, Charlie and others, but I need to point out my first big mistake as moderator. I tried to quote a snippet of Charlie's rather long post #80 and respond to it, but I ended up clicking "Edit Post" rather than "Quote", and thus ended up deleting most of Charlie's original post, except for the snippet I quoted in my response (to quibble with it). I thus made my quibbling response (now deleted) look as if Charlie wrote it. My apologies to everyone, especially to Charlie.