[Jonathan James Henderson]

John,

I'm not sure to whom or what your post is directed at. I don't think anyone here is lashing out at free verse or the last 150 years of poetry. My only qualm about free verse is that much was sacrificed for that freedom, and not always for the better. Meter (and rhyme) satisfy fundamental human desires for patterns, both for meaning and for the sheer pleasure. Free verse kind still utilize other patterns, but most will not be as intuitively discernible as meter and rhyme. I don't think any poet "killed" anything; poetry just evolved/changed as all art forms do, and we can sit around and debate whether that change was for the better or not, but I'd rather just appreciate what's out there and ignore the rest. This thread was mostly concerned about the relationship between meter and natural speech; it wasn't intended as any kind of commentary (positive or negative) on the the evolution of poetry in the last 150 years.

[Matt Q]

Originally Posted by Jonathan James Henderson

John,

I don't think anyone here is lashing out at free verse or the last 150 years of poetry.

You started your first post with a quote from another member decrying contemporary critics as "fools" and "sophists". This might be what John's responding to.

Matt

[Jonathan James Henderson]

Matt,

Perhaps, though I read John's comment to be addressing poems/poets rather than critics like Tim's did.

[Rose Novick]

Originally Posted by Matt Q

You started your first post with a quote from another member decrying contemporary critics as "fools" and "sophists". This might be what John's responding to.

Matt

I'll have a fuller response to Jonathan's comment later, but I just want to say quickly that this is a misreading of my tone when I said that scansion is fake and that anyone who cares about it is a crank. After all, I care about it! I wrote a whole post about it! I use it in the vast majority of my poetry! I use it in my critiques on this board! I just think it's best to do so with a hearty irreverence for it; doing so helps keep it in its proper place.

[Matt Q]

Rose,

I'm a bit lost. Did you think I was referring to your post?

When I refer to Jonathon's "first post", I mean his first post on this thread, post #1. And I'm referring to the member quoted there who actually uses the words "fools" and "sophistry", hence the quotation marks.

Matt

[Rose Novick]

Ohhhhhh yes I did very much get myself confused, on account of being Unable To Read.

[Matt Q]

Reading's overrated

[RCL]

I posted this in response to a similar issue on Metrical. Maybe it's relevant here:

Thinking back at how oral tradition, with its necessary repetition and patterning of speech to help a singer/speaker/listener remember and repeat (I'm an honorary folklorist), and recalling that some think the beats of our hearts and rhythms of our strides might be a cause for measuring,

I wrote down "Meter is Poetry's Matter," the soul of spoken, sung and written poetry. But a little rhythmic "bating" on the side can be fun!

Now where's my drum?
it's time to walk.

[R. S. Gwynn]

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."