[Max Goodman]

Thanks, Rose. The only Williams on my shelf is a Selected I've never spent much time with. A copy of Spring and All is on its way to me. I look forward to it.

Originally Posted by Quincy Lehr

Walther ... essence HERE.

Blech.

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

I don't see sleeping on a mattress or having a roof over your head as a disconnect from nature.

Common ground. But if you feel the same about computers, say, or cars, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[James Brancheau]

Yes, I agree, Cameron. I should have been more precise. I really did laugh out loud when I read that. You have a talent for being blunt and making it resonate.

Speaking of which, my apologies to Sarah-Jane. While I stand by the gist of my post, it was mean-spirited and you didn't deserve that. I have deleted it. And I like your work, btw.

Happy New Year everyone (I'll get there first *)

*(Except for maybe Cally?)

[Jennifer Reeser]

Originally Posted by James Brancheau

Happy New Year everyone

Happy New Year, James! To you and to all.

[Jennifer Reeser]

You can't read this article without paying The New York Times.

Let that be your first clue

[Jim Moonan]

.
Given the avalanche of responses (here and elsewhere on social media and in the reader responses in the NYT), it now feels like the article is intentionally trolling. Whatever trolling is…. Though no, it was not. It is just so outlandish a proposition put forth so lamely, pathetically, tepidly, that it could be. Are we? (Yes. Everyday, most of us. At least some of us, anyway)


.

[Jennifer Reeser]

Agreed, Jim. This is too loaded with aesthetic prejudice for me to take it seriously. For example, here is a statement from Mr. Walther's social media:


Matthew Walther
@matthewwalther
·
Dec 29
"New Formalism" seems to me a blind alley as well, a misunderstanding of the importance of form.



Okay. New Formalism (and what's with the scare quotes?) is a safe, bankable-enough shot, formalists being a minority. How about if we took this blanket dismissal and put it into any other context?

(Insert random racial or religious minority) seem to me blind, failing to understand...

Buddhists just don't get it, right? Mormons? Don't even start... religion is dead.


What would we say about a person who looks at things this way? This is me, though. You do you.


J

[Max Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Reeser

You can't read this article without paying The New York Times.

Let that be your first clue

Are you suggesting we should be suspicious of any writing we have to pay for? The consequences of that--particlarly, though not only, as it relates to journalism--would be dire. (I don't claim, of course, that the sketchy opinion piece under discussion is journalism, but we're talking about The New York Times.)

Since many of us here are teachers, I'll add that many of us can read it without paying.

https://nytimesineducation.com/access-nyt/

[Jennifer Reeser]

Originally Posted by Max Goodman

Since many of us here are teachers, I'll add that the Times offers free subscriptions to many or all teachers.

https://nytimesineducation.com/access-nyt/

That is awesome, Max, and I am truly happy for you. Clearly, it pays to be a teacher. Also I'm impressed by the crack, capitalist marketing move NYT is making with this publicity tactic.

Where can one find the free subscriptions to the widows, orphans, homeless, and the incarcerated?

[Sarah-Jane Crowson]

Happy New Year to James and everyone (although it isn't quite New Year here yet).

And James, no apology necessary for the frankness. Tt's a fair point, well taken, and fwiw I respect you much more for sticking by it than trying to backtrack.

In terms of the article, yes, I think that the NYT are now rubbing their hands together having achieved precisely what they wanted to do. It makes me wonder why they are targeting poets as a potential audience, though. But I also know people who wouldn't normally read the NYT are now reading it...so maybe it's a carefully thought out marketing ploy based on statistics around articles about poetry that potential new markets have read in the last year, or something.

Sarah-Jane

[Max Goodman]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Reeser

You can't read this article without paying The New York Times.

Let that be your first clue

Do you mean we should be suspicious of writing we have to pay for?