[Jayne Osborn]

Bob,
Perhaps I haven’t made the whole premise clear enough. The “other woman” isn’t guilty of anything else but crying and being miserable. She’s me, but only “now and then”, so there’s no need to know any more about the “weeping version”.
Others have mentioned the stock phrases, or clichés, which I’m working to replace.

Hilary,

My thought is that perhaps this other woman is the clinically depressed version of the N's self.

You’ve absolutely nailed what I’m trying to say! I avoid descriptions like “clinically depressed” (see my reply to Richard in post #8) so I hope my revision might make the whole situation more clear.

Glenn,
I’m glad you enjoyed this sonnet. Yes, the bad wife really is imprisoned in the good wife! They’re both me. My husband has taken to bringing me a cup of tea in bed, enquiring (with a grin) which one I am today. I’m happy to report that 99% of the time I’m the latter.

Thanks for sharing your poem and for all you do.

Thank you, Glenn. That's very kind, and means a lot.

Yves,
Gosh, I’ve never actually listened closely to the lyrics to Babooshka, so thank you for highlighting their meaning. When the “bad wife” is around, it is rather “a fraught journey” as you say, but, thankfully, it’s also short-lived.
I’m afraid I’ll never be remembered for incorporating imagery, metaphor, etc. into my poems; for better or worse, I can only tell it as it is, in everyday language. It appeals to some people, but I acknowledge that others would like more.

Jim,
Thank you for coming back. I liked your “sharing a pot of tea in peace” idea for the ending, but it tended to make me feel old, …even though I am!
And yes, I think you understand that writing this kind of poem is largely for the catharsis it brings about.

My thanks to all of you.

Jayne

[Yves S L]

Hello Jayne,

I can appreciate someone sticking to their style (still think, though, the sestet needs some kind of seasoning). I hope the poem does what you want.

[Susan McLean]

Jayne, I got what you were going for, I think, and I enjoyed the way you mislead the reader at first about what the other woman really is. I still feel your final couplet isn't as good as it could be. I tried a slightly different take on it:

We don't know how this works, but when it does,
we both prefer this me to what I was.

Anyway, I think you can still do better than the current version of the final couplet.

Susan

[Yves S L]

Hello Jayne,

You have addressed some of my concerns while keeping within your self-chosen stylistic constraints; and, relative to my previous comments, I consider the poem improved.

[1] The Balance of Tensions Between the Octet and Sestet

You have heightened the tension in the first octet by altering the first line to create a stronger sense of misdirection. If a comic sets up the punchline better, then the punchline itself does not need to be altered, and if a sonneteer sets up the octet better, then the set up can be more effective as is.

[2] The Sestet Needs More Seasoning

What I was attempting to imply is that even though the choice of honestly speaking from the heart can create a plainly speaking somewhat monosyllabic iambic pentameter, and it is a fair choic to carry that voice between the octet and sestet, still I felt the sestet needed to be seasoned. Originally, the examples I gave were all in the ball park of heightening the "poeticness" of the sestet; but Susan's last comment also showed me that the seasoning could simply be "sharper phrasing", and the change you made to the final couplet strenghten the sestet while staying within your self-chosen stylistic constraings.

I am reminded about a useful comment about commenting on art: sometimes a person raises an issue, even if their solution is not what one wants to do, but it might help one explore the issue oneself.

Yeah!

[Roger Slater]

I don't know if this suggestion would require too radical a rewrite to consider, but here goes. I think you spill the beans too soon. Maybe the octet should simply and consistently refer to his "other wife" without explicitly revealing that it's not actually a different person. Spend the octet describing the "other wife," then save the reveal for the sestet, or even as late as the final couplet. Among other things, that would give you more space to describe the "other wife" in more particular detail, not just as someone who is miserable and cries a lot, and it would give us a decisive sonnet-like turn.

[Jayne Osborn]

Yves, Max, Susan and Bob,

You've all given me a lot of great suggestions. I tried reading this as if I was seeing it for the first time - and all the flaws sprang right out at me!

I'm very grateful to you for taking the time to give me your thoughts, so forgive me for not addressing them all individually.

I think, as you suggested, Bob, a complete re-write would be a good idea. I'll give it a go. (I wrote it after coming out of what I call a 'trough', a very low point which happens occasionally. I fight it, but I sometimes lose; that's when my husband's great sense of humour gradually wins me round!)

I'll try a different tack and see what happens... thanks again.

Jayne

[Yves S L]

Hello Jayne,

Third version is nice! You have added some bite to the voice with the which/bitch rhyme! Interesting flavour, strident and acerbic, which colours and contrasts with the humour, the self-pity, the sadness, and the love. There are so many things you could probably do with this though, and the numerous options means the poem is multi-dimensional, resonating simultaneously on many factors each of which could be tweaked!

I was previously asking for this resonance.

[Susan McLean]

Jayne, I mainly like the rewrite, but "incumbent" doesn't fit well in a marriage. Maybe "partner reveals" instead of "incumbent shows"?

Susan

[Yves S L]

2 cents: I find "incumbent" delightfully sly and awkward and tongue in cheek and distancing (in the end the narrator distancing from herself, detach from the situation somewhat).

[Jim Ramsey]

Hi Jayne,

If you decide against "incumbent," maybe "indweller" would work. It would add a bit of alliteration too with "herself." Just a thought.

Jim

ps Ahhh, but now I see it would lose some other echoes of sound...
pss I think I mean assonance