[Alan Sullivan]

Anna, not only do you make sense, but you do so in fine concise prose. I hope the cloaking device stays off. It's high time you switched allegiance from Romulus to Vulcan. (Wasn't Romulus the source of cloaking technology?)

Welcome, and I hope you'll decloak next at nearly defunct TDE.

Alan

[Mark Allinson]

Well, this thread has assured me that TDE will indeed survive.

Which is good to know, since I intend to post again there soon.

I did enjoy my return to posting, on the Metrical board. But now (as Barry Humphries once said of his desire to find the rest-room) I want to be where the big nobs hang out.

[Gene Auprey]

Anna,

I know exactly what mean. Though I have been writing poetry for awhile, I seldom submit anything, as matter of fact, I am exactly one for three as far a acceptances go. The main reason I have been dissuaded from submitting is those little bio’s most publications ask for, since I don’t have even a highschool diploma. I have been involved with many schools in the last thirty-six years - Harvard, Dartmouth and several of the UMass campuses unfortunately I was there to build a building not enrolled.

Gene

[Anna M Evans]

It was more about the readings than publication, to be honest. I don't know that I was ever accepted or rejected by a local journal simply because of my resume, although several local journals have now asked me to appear at readings they sponsor. Of course I always assume my ACCEPTANCES are on merit...

But yes, what bothered me was going round to these local readings and hearing featured readers who were worse than poor. However, no-one ever asked ME to do a reading although my Open Mic contributions were invariably very well received. One woman (A US1 Poet) actually laughed in my face a year or two back when I went up and introduced myself afterward to ask if she might consider me as a reader.

I should explain further--I love to do readings. I used to be into acting as a teen and now as a wife/mother/skivvy I don't get a whole lot of that positive feedback I used to get from performing on a stage. Call me shallow, by all means!

There's a blog entry here which goes into more detail about my various reasons for doing the MFA (which is a slightly different question to the one about credibility.) I was trying to respond to your question quickly, and probably didn't cover all my bases.

Thanks for the invite, Alan. I may take you up on it some time!

Anna

[Janet Kenny]

Anna,
While I recognise the political shrewdness of your decision and also applaud and sympathise with the desire to read and learn a great deal more under the guidance of others who have also done these things, I do experience an attack of nausea and rebellion which I know you will understand and even share to some extent.

I'm a real snob. I always wonder about those who have to flaunt their background instead of their work, but I have no power to assist you, (or me) to become published. I too have edited poetry ezines and I did pay attention to names whose work had pleased me in the past but I couldn't give a tinker's cuss whether they had graduated with fanfares or been kicked out of every institution in the English-speaking world. I know you are right. That is how it is. In the end self-respect is what matters most and I'm foolish enough to think that integrity counts for something in poetry. It is possible to be sincere and a politician at the same time. Robert Frost proved that and the scene has become even more repulsive in recent years.

You wrote that you are "picky" about villanelles. I am too. Many of us are.

I guess what matters most nowadays, if recognition and publication are to be achieved, is the same killer instinct that athletes are supposed to have.

Good luck
Janet

[Maryann Corbett]

I'm looking at the latest issue of Margie: An American Journal of Poetry, an annual. Pieces originally published in it appeared in last year's Best American Poetry, so it ain't chopped liver. Wish I could get in; recently got rejected.

I'm looking at the bio section. Yes, it has Gioia and a lot of professors, teachers, much-published poets, and MFA students. But it also has these:

"John Alexanderson is a Prudential retiree, school bus driver, and grandfather in Doylestown, PA. He is thankful to still be a runner at age 61 and to have published his first chapbook, When Least Expected, earlier in the year."

"Kathryn Gahl is a writer, dancer, and registered nurse. Her poems and stories appear in over thirty journals...Mother of five, she lives in Wisconsin with her second and last husband."

"Elizabeth Langemak lives in Columbia, MO"

"Rachel Lindley is a Canadian woman who, after undergoing brain surgery to remove a tumor, began to read and teach herself to write poetry in an effort to recover neurological skills understanding complex symbolism. It worked."

To get to the point: There are still places where the poetry and only the poetry counts, and not any credential. We should help each other find them.

Maryann

[Mark Allinson]

Janet, you have mentioned this issue a number of times - your suggestion that somehow credentials are influential in getting published.

I think the correlations you notice between publication and qualification are a function of the individual's linguistic facility, rather than a selective process whereby editors choose poems from the more academically qualified poets.

If you have a facility with language, then it is likely you will end up in a language-centered field of work, like journalism or teaching, etc. And for these you need an academic qualification. If you then write poems and submit them for publication, it is more likely that your inherent facility with words is what gets the poetry noticed, rather than the editor's selection on the basis of those qualifications.

I truly believe that any editor worth his or her salt will ALWAYS take the better poem, rather than the best qualified poet.

[Janet Kenny]

Mark,
I was replying to Anna. I have observed that certain narrow paths are trodden in some areas of poetry. While your broader observations are correct they don't in any way invalidate what I said. There is a certain kind of trained "good taste" and educated politeness about certain awards and publications and it's probably as much due to conditioning as to prejudice. It is also about wealth and serendipity. It's little signals that say you are "one of us". And the over all effect is one of blandness.

Who says which editors are "worth their salt"? Aren't you confusing idealism with fact?
Janet

[Rose Kelleher]

Mark, read Anna's last two posts again. Now that she's pursuing an MFA, people who dismissed her out of hand before are treating her with respect. That's what Janet and I are responding to. Obviously Anna was talented before she enrolled, and she's even pointed out that her writing style hasn't changed much since then, so why did they laugh in her face the first time she asked to give a reading?

[cross-posted with Janet]


[This message has been edited by Rose Kelleher (edited November 22, 2006).]

[Anna M Evans]

I'd just like to point out that I did say earlier in this thread that I think editing the journal has done a better job of increasing my 'credibility' in this local poetry scene than the MFA.

It's pretty clear to me that I'm not political enough to REALLY benefit from the MFA, given that I continue to argue with my professors and criticize published poets. Having said that, I'm going to stick with it. It's still a teaching qualification, last time I checked, AND I'm learning all the time.

Cheers,

Anna

[This message has been edited by Anna Evans (edited November 22, 2006).]