[Kevin Corbett]

I agree that it's maybe possible that Creely or Bukowski have, at some point, written a lasting poem. However, from what I've read of either, I remain dubious. You are right, though, about poets like that getting to teens---a girl ordered Bukowski's book at the bookstore where I work a week or so ago, and she didn't seem to have had much exposure to him beforehand (she told us she wanted something by the poet "Burkowski"---I knew who she meant of the bat, but...well...spelling was never my strong suit.)

And I'm wondering: is it pretentious to sign your posts? I've been shying away from it of late, but it just feels right. Oh well.

-Kevin

[Daniel Pereira]

Hey Kevin,

Well, the thing about them is, they've written so many poems that it's almost impossible to conclusively prove that none of them are good.

I think there are actually quite a number of good poems by Creeley, but I ain't gonna post them here: doing that is just asking for some wandering samurai to come along and cut them to ribbons and, well, I like them and don't want them cut to ribbons.

Oh. Right. This thread is about Whitman. Well, the nice thing about Whitman is that it's very easy to conclusively prove that he did write a good poem, and that's much easier.

I've never thought about the name-signing thing. It always made sense on other boards where I used a screen-name instead of my real name. I guess it's pretty obvious who's really writing what here. But old habits die hard. And anyway, people might start to call me Daniel, which is fine, but only my parents and coworkers call me that, and I don't think y'all are in either of those categories.

So, pretentious or not, I remain
-Dan

[This message has been edited by Daniel Pereira (edited July 11, 2005).]

[Thomas Newton]

Gail,

“give Whitman a chance” -- I say “Give Poetry a Chance!”

Between Whitman, Ginsberg, Williams, and Diane Wakoski you couldn’t get a sonnet published for 40 forty years, and a great poet like Longfellow was maligned. No wonder poetry is almost dead.

From the sonnet sequence “Slaughter of the Muses”


THE DEATH OF CLIO THE MUSE OF HISTORY

Henry Brooke [1706-1783] was perhaps the most “scientific” poet of the generation. Who now
reads Universal Beauty? --Marjorie Hope Nicolson, Newton Demands the Muse

The past, the past, cut off the past. How great
Our Freedom grows. Walt Whitman sang the song
Of himself. Echoes still reverberate,
And shatter crystalline form, from that gong.
The song of yourself he said you should sing,
And cut the shackles English bards begat,
And Freedom sounds so sweet. Let Freedom ring
Across the land and steamroll structures flat.
The war was fought and won. The rebels cleared
The field of form. Free verse became the norm.
More Freedom, cut the past they loudly cheered
So Freedom killed our Clio and her form.
How long O Rose of Poetry can you
Survive, who on the bush of Culture grew?

We have come a long way from:

Oft have I seen at some cathedral door
A laborer, pausing in the dust and heat,
Lay down his burden, and with reverent feet
Enter, and cross himself, and on the floor
Kneel to repeat his paternoster o’er;
Far off the noises of the world retreat;
The loud vociferations of the street
Become an undistinguishable roar.
So, as I enter here from day to day
And leave my burden at this minster gate,
Kneeling in prayer, and not ashamed to pray,
The tumult of the time disconsolate
To inarticulate murmurs dies away,
While the eternal ages watch and wait.
--Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882)

To:

Love Sonnet
In Love’s rubber armor I come to you;
b
oo
b.
c,
d
c
d:
e
f--
e
f.
g
g.
--John Updike, (1932--)

And:

We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.
--Gwendolyn Brooks (1917 - 2000)

A long way down that is.

The national poetry of the nation that landed a man on the moon in 1969 has come to this.

Thomas Newton
TJLMT Club

[This message has been edited by Thomas Newton2 (edited July 18, 2005).]

[Thomas Newton]

AE,

“you'd have to pay me good money to read every poem by Longfellow.”

How much do you want to be paid to read every poem by my great, great, great, great grandfather, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow?

Thomas Newton
TJLMT Club




[This message has been edited by Thomas Newton2 (edited July 18, 2005).]

[Peter Chipman]

Incidentally, Thomas, the Gwendolyn Brooks poem is from 1960. It can't be symptomatic of a post-Apollo decline and fall, therefore, even if we accept your premise that it's bad poetry.

-Peter

[This message has been edited by Peter Chipman (edited July 18, 2005).]