[Mary Meriam]

There's an interesting thread on metre here, which includes one of my favorite takes on metre ever, from Michael Slipp:

I don't blame any poet for massive misunderstanding of prosody. I don't expect them to be scientists. Hopkins, Williams, Pound, Eliot all wrote (varying numbers of) good poems, despite their grave confusions.

[Janet Kenny]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

I don't think Richard said anything, or quoted anything, that everyone here doesn't already know. Very familiar stuff. But the crack about letting our meter be "petrafied" was, I think, rather unfair, since Petra also knows all the truisms about meter that Richard accurately recited. Richard's source is quoted as saying:

"Within certain limits we may say that a certain scansion is right or wrong"

Surely Petra's point had to do with mistakes existing within those acknowledged limits. I certainly did not hear her call for perfect regularity of meter, or claim that outside those certain limits there may not be frequent and intelligent disagreement and opinionating that cannot be neatly and unanimously declared either right or wrong.

Some folks have taken this simple and perhaps unnecessary observation as an occasion to proclaim their own sophistication in matters metrical and to assure the rest of us that they are beyond mechanical rules of sing-song verse and no prisoners to scansion like rank beginners. Well, bully for you all. I pretty much take that for granted about just about everyone here, if you must know, including Petra, and there's really no need to strut about possessing a quality we all have in common.

But notwithstanding our nuanced sophistication, let's face it. There's such a thing as a metrical gaffe, the kind of mistake even its perpetrator would not defend once it's pointed out. I don't see many of them here, but I agree it would behoove us all to try to spot those before we post, particularly if we are posting the Deep End.

Roger,
Your trust and confidence is heart warming. Who's strutting? There is a lot of plodding counting occasionally and I think it can be to the detriment of the poem. I always give a yelp when I feel a beat is missed and I'm often told it was meant and then I'm content.

Is this a classroom or a place for mature poets to discuss their work?

I missed the dig about "petrafied" which is cruel but funny. Petra you didn't mind did you? You can get your own back when Richard least expects it.
Janet

[Janice D. Soderling]

Is this a classroom or a place for mature poets to discuss their work?

I missed the dig about "petrafied" which is cruel but funny. Petra you didn't mind did you? You can get your own back when Richard least expects it.

Since when is cruel funny, Janet? Getting one's own back is strange advice from someone who claims to have a mature attitude.

[Maryann Corbett]

It seems we've stopped talking about either spelling or scansion and are talking about each other's attitudes. Probably not a good thing. I've sent some PMs. Can we correct course?

[Janet Kenny]

Originally Posted by Janice D. Soderling

Since when is cruel funny, Janet? Getting one's own back is strange advice from someone who claims to have a mature attitude.

It was a yoke Yanice.

Quite right Maryann

[peter richards]

I've gone off the boil since posting this.
It's a bitter and twisted observation by one who migrated from Denmark to Norway and encountered some exceptional small-mindedness in the communities there. I'm sure English version are available, but I'll sort of interpret it literally, as it were, or word for word.
Spellchecks are a pain in the arse/ass/ræva/rump/rompa/cul etc and it should be easy enough to see why.
Yeah yeah

Du skal ikke tro at du er noget
You shall not think you are anything
Du skal ikke tro du er lige så meget som os
You shall not think you are as much as us
Du skal ikke tro du er klogere end os
You shall not think yourself more wise than us
Du skal ikke bilde dig ind at du er bedre end os
You shall not imagine that you are better than us
Du skal ikke tro du ved mere end os
You shall not think you know more than us
Du skal ikke tro du er mere end os
You shall not think you are more than us
Du skal ikke tro at du duer til noget
You shall not think you are any use
Du skal ikke le ad os
You shall not laugh at us
Du skal ikke tro at nogen bryder sig om dig
You shall not think anyone cares about you
Du skal ikke tro du kan lære os noget
You shall not think you can teach us anything

These are things that potential immigrants to Eratosphere need to know, apparently.

[Stephen Collington]

Originally Posted by peter richards

These are things that potential immigrants to Eratosphere need to know, apparently.

Peter, try taking the negatives out, switch the nothing's etc. to something's etc., and see how it reads:

You shall think you are something.
You shall think you are as much as us.
You shall think yourself more wise than us.
You shall imagine that you are better than us.
You shall think you know more than us.
You shall think you are more than us.
You shall think you are of use.
You shall laugh at us.
You shall think everyone cares about you.
You shall think you can teach us something.

Would you prefer a community where such an ethos prevails? (Do you find it realistic, humanly plausible?) And even if you were to feel (initially) welcome in such a place yourself, how long do you think it might be before you begin to find it difficult dealing with other new arrivals applying that standard in their dealings with you, as an established member of the group?

Every community has its standards, and every community requires a period of adjustement from new members. Eratosphere is no different in that respect. I must say, however, I find the overall thrust of your attack quite groundless. Not everyone here is immediately friendly to newcomers, of course, but some positively outdo themselves in trying to help. And really, anyone is welcome to join. All you need to do is sign up and start posting. The trick is not to make a jerk of yourself.

Frankly, if you want to make a jerk of yourself here, I can't imagine a better way than to adopt an attiude of "anti-Jantelagen," in principle and practice. And I rather suspect that the same would go for any community anywhere.

[John Whitworth]

Jerome, Thank you very much for that stuff about tools and grammar. I never knew you could do that. Ive selected English (Ireland). How do you suppose that differs from English (United Kingdom)? Does anyone know? Could anyone hazard a guess?

Yeah peter. It's the same if you go from England to Scotland. You have to tread warily for about twenty years.

[peter richards]

Magnificent, Stephen. We've now cooked it down to a simple phrase such as: Eratosphere is a community and/or environment in which members may seek to justify the application of Janteloven.
I rest my case.

You're right about that of course, John. From one part of England to another only takes about ten years.

[Kevin Greene]

Deleted: A joke more polemic than humorous and too sardonic for anyone's good.