[Scott Miller]

Originally Posted by Rachael Briggs

The official rules of the Bake-Off are here. Julie Stoner has also posted this helpful statement of the de facto aesthetic guidelines.

I found Julie's post particularly insightful when trying to orient myself to the operative definition of the sonnet in the context of the Bake-Off.

Originally Posted by Rachael Briggs

Matthen is critical of the idea when it comes to concepts like "game" and "species", but doesn't consider literary genres.)

I was also thinking about the species classification as it relates to sonnets. There is no one genetic sequence that makes a Golden Retriever, but we all know what they look like. Allow some genetic drift and you get most of them. Allow too much drift and you equate it with a wolf, which is a bad mistake to make.

I think the only way to square the circle is to accept that people have different levels of tolerance, while doing your best to convince others that your level is the RIGHT one

[Andrew Sacks]

Mr. Russell, I respectfully disagree. There is NOT necessarily the expectation of evolution of every poetic form. More to the point is respect for the past, the tradition. There is no such thing as a trimeter sonnet, and there never should or will be.

[Roger Slater]

Thanks, Andrew, for clearing that up for us. I'm glad someone with authority has stepped in to resolve the question under debate.

We all know, of course, that the sonnet changed and evolved in many ways over the centuries, but someone's got to draw the line and say enough is enough. Why shouldn't it be Andrew?

[Orwn Acra]

I find it amusing when people refuse to believe a sonnet can be something other than a 14-line poem in iambic pentameter. It's as if the sonnet isn't an arbitrary, man-made piece of art consisting of conventions, but a biological thing of science and taxonomy.

[Andrew Sacks]

Roger, I humbly apologize for my classical stance. And by the way, the change I have noticed in sonnets over the centuries has been in a widening of subject matter, with few and minor alterations of form.

[Jennifer Gordon]

The cardinal rules for sonnets long successfully toyed with too flagrantly, yet do NOT allow a trimeter beauty to waltz on the stage and win the crown under such a name. At that rate you might be more able to pull god out of a top hat. And to think the legitimate model's octet/sestet were utilized as if that would allow the christening to proceed flawlessly. Permutations took a wild leap when they sanctified this baby. Nor can it outlast its day.

When anthologists pick and choose today, are they less stringent in their generosity than 120 years or so ago? Herrick's 14 line beauty was disallowed and too many other gems likewise disregarded, but perhaps Main was above most.

Yet I see Judge Chandler, if I may be forgiven for rather playfully rendering Cathy thus, has justified the judges' claim for this by the supposedly ever evolving form. I beg to differ. But then again, I stand corrected. Some clever fellow showed me his one-liner sonnet on AP and I guess looking at your dog might not only be wonderful poetry but also a hearty sonnet. Impressive. I firmly disagree, but thank you very much for explaining why this was considered more than acceptable.

Other than the curious claim that this is a sonnet, it is both amusing, clever and thought-provoking, not to mention excellently theological since the LORD God said all flesh is grass in both Isaiah 40:6 and again also by His apostle Peter in I Pet 1:24. Lovely bit of end-rhyming as well.

If not for the utterly untenable (in my opinion) assessment of this being a sonnet, it is a delightful poem and a treasure in its own right. Excepting that I quite enjoyed it.

Thanks for sharing!

ttfn,
Jenny

[R. Nemo Hill]

"if I may be forgiven for rather playfully rendering Cathy thus"

Well, that's a mouthful! Tell me, Cathy, how does it feel being thus playfully rendered?

Nemo

[Roger Slater]

I don't know if I approve. "Cathy Chandler" has always been a double trochee, and saying "Judge Chandler" dishonors that tradition.

[Roger Slater]

And Andrew, let me try once more. There's the Italian, the Petrarchian, several variants by Dante, the Occitan, the English, and the Spencerian, to name just a few that even the "traditionalists" acknowledge. They did not ome into being simultaneously as part of the initial fiat setting down their mandatotry features, and if Eratosphere had existed throughout all of history and Spencer had shown up for a bakeoff, I trust that folks like you would be telling him he didn't write real sonnets.

[Tim Murphy]

"Age cannot wither her/ Nor custom stale her infinite variety."