[Roger Slater]

I don't see how "reason" is being thrown out the window just because we are vehement and insistent and loud when we reasonably point out that all the adjectives that I applied to Trump in post #90 are literally accurate. They do not become unreasonable just because they are unflattering and pejorative. It is reason and logic and reality that lead me to the conclusion that Trump is an unbalanced narcissistic lawless sociopath who has already confessed to several serious impeachable offenses (Emoluments Clause) and at least one felony (i.e., obstruction of justice by firing Comey for the admitted purpose of shutting down an investigation into his own campaign). Faced with Republican "leaders" who refuse to acknowledge the reality of this situation because they are hoping that the subversion of our Constitution might result in a lower marginal tax rate on the wealthy, it's reasonable to raise one's voice a bit.

[Jim Moonan]

Roger: "it's reasonable to raise one's voice a bit."

Sing it loud, sing it clear.

[Gregory Palmerino]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.df6e707f81ab

[John Riley]

Bill, the opposition to Trump is the reasoned, principled position. He is the unreasonable, sometimes irrational, foe of reason and discourse. Have you not seen his tweets? Now is not the time to lecture those opposed to his open destruction of the American state about their manners. Republicans have made it clear that tax cuts for the only people they serve, the financial elite, is worth any price. That is the unreasonable and anti-American position. One can yell and scream and curse out reasonable things. You seem to want to discuss presentation when the crisis is foundational.

BTW, Horowitz is a psycho-fascist. I stopped listening or reading him or anything about him during the Clinton presidency. I'm also not interested in what anyone affiliated with him, conservative or liberal or anything else, has to say. To be associated with Horowitz means you are not a serious person.

[William A. Baurle]

Originally Posted by Jim Moonan

"Corruption is far better than communism". - Horowitz

OMG no!!!

“Corruption is the gangrene of a people”. Pope Francis

Yes.

OMG, no, Jim. The quote does not suggest that corruption is a good thing, of course, but merely points out that corruption, which is virtually business as usual in politics, can be identified and rooted out, whereas communism is systemic, ie: it cannot be isolated as a single part and removed, but destroys completely, as history has shown.

The quote from Horowitz came from a discussion about Bill Clinton. Clinton wasn't a communist, but he was corrupt - for example getting a blow job in the oval office from someone who wasn't the First Lady. That kind of behavior can be damaging, but at least it can be "dealt with", in Horowitz's words. In other words, better a corrupt politician as President than a communist as President, which I agree with, since I regard communism as utterly corrupt itself, in theory and in practice.

Pope Francis's statement actually agrees with Howowitz in comparing corruption to gangrene, in that gangrene can be excised and eliminated without harm to the greater body, whereas communism is more like a malignant cancer that invades and corrupts the entire system, usually fatally.

The Pope Francis quote strikes me as being profoundly ironic, being that the Catholic church is one of the most historically corrupt institutions the world has ever known. But that's for a different thread.


To the others:

In case it was missed, I emphasized a bit of Michael Cantor's post #96:

...but it's going to be done by raising voices and pushing back frequently and strongly, not by reason. - Michael Cantor post # 96

- [emphasis mine]

See his entire post and mine for the complete context. In other words: I am not saying that a vehement resistance to the Trump administration is unreasoned: not hardly. I was responding directly to Michael's wording there: "not by reason". And I will repeat: you aren't going to do much of anything without reason. Perhaps I am taking Michael too literally. I seriously doubt he'd advocate abandoning reason in the course of waging a political resistance.

My entire point here is that ad hom based argumentation, even if well-deserved — and hey, I've called Trump the Orange Clown a few times myself and have ridiculed him here and elsewhere — really doesn't get anyone anywhere. That's just a fact. Deal with it or don't.


John Riley - you wrote:

BTW, Horowitz is a psycho-fascist. I stopped listening or reading him or anything about him during the Clinton presidency. I'm also not interested in what anyone affiliated with him, conservative or liberal or anything else, has to say. To be associated with Horowitz means you are not a serious person.

Think what you may about Horowitz, but to call him a psycho-fascist is really just proving his point about his more emotional opponents - I assume you've read enough of him to know that he refers to himself as libel and slander-proof, after all these years of being called the very thing he adamantly opposes?

Anyone as hard on the regressive left as he is is out to protect people from fascism, not a fascist himself.

"To be associated with Horowitz means you are not a serious person." - That's absurd. I'd associate with him, despite his faults, and I'm a pretty damn serious person, unless you think I'm just fooling around?

[Ann Drysdale]

No, dammit - I will say it again, Bill having again mentioned the "orange clown".

He isn't orange any more and his hair has been subtly adjusted to the silvery coiffure of an elderly American, albeit a little more bouffant than one might expect and still a bit over-the-collar.

Someone has persuaded him to change an image that had seemed ridiculously non-negotiable. If I had not known of his bizarre appearance hitherto, I would perhaps be giving him more credence than I do. He is being groomed; we are being gradually, subtly, deceived.

Not a political insight, just an observation. My coulrophobia persists, and although Auguste is becoming Pierrot, I fear the ringmaster.

[Jim Moonan]

But back to the firing... Regarding the root cause of why we ended up with a president like Trump, here’s the answer, plain and simple:

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...9hkY0yPpzP.mp4


Editing back in to say the link above was not meant to be a joke (though it works in that way). It was a mistake. Here’s the link:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2...rig-mobile.cnn

[Roger Slater]

Act V. The king is about to be finally deposed.

[Douglas G. Brown]

Things just keep gettin' curiouser and curiouser.

[Jim Moonan]

He will survive everything that has happened thus far. He's president and by constitutional definition he has wide-ranging powers and discretion.

I don't think he's actually broken any laws (so far) as president. But just the fallout alone of his bumbling and ineptitude will render him a presidential eunuch. I'll settle for that. In a warped way (and what isn't warped these days?) I would rather see him whither away in office for three years than be run out of office on a rail trailing tweets, ranting and raving. I know, warped. Although he could lead us into a nuclear holocaust............ In which case I'm wrong. And right.

Sally Yates. Sally Yates. Sally Yates.