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  #1  
Unread 02-10-2019, 06:52 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is offline
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I'd read the Guardian article. A shame it's only small snippets. I would have like to have read her whole talk.

I just read the latest Poets' Respond poem on Rattle, about which the poet, Adam Zetela, says, " “I wrote this poem in response to the public beatdown of Amélie Wen Zhao. Although it could have just as easily been written in response to the censure of Anders Carlson-Wee and other writers. In the name of social justice, there is a trend to give writers the least generous readings. These public performances of outrage are disastrous for both art and politics.”

I think he's spot on about that. That has definitely been the case is the online "outrage fests" that I've witnessed on Facebook etc. It's quite disturbing to see critics insist that there's only way to read a particular poem, and it's clear to them (the critic) that that's absolutely the only way to understand it, and that's what the poet meant. I thought the apology the Nation was pretty telling. Basically they say: "At first we read it as poem, then we didn't".

The Amélie Wen Zhao situation is laid out here.

I tried Twitter briefly. What I discovered is the character count is too small to actually write anything balanced or nuanced. OK, I know can be wordy, but still, maybe that explains something, I don't know.

Last edited by Matt Q; 02-10-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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Unread 02-10-2019, 09:17 PM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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Twitter is the ideal vehicle for Donald Trump to spoon-feed his base what they should be thinking. It'll take a long time for Twitter to shake that taint in my mind.

John
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Unread 02-10-2019, 09:59 PM
Erik Olson Erik Olson is offline
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Say what you will, the vehicle is ideal for our most embarrassing of thoughts to transmit to the widest public at once and all before we have given time to think. Tweets have allowed many a politician to share today what he regrets tomorrow. What else is new?

Last edited by Erik Olson; 02-10-2019 at 10:53 PM.
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Unread 02-10-2019, 10:49 PM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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Hi Matt,

Yes, I'd like to read her whole speech too. Thanks for the story about the YA Twitter storm. I think it's very depressing, though it doesn't surprise me. Certain sections of the left seem intent on fighting the pettiest of battles motivated by a self-righteous censoriousness which is now having a genuine, though at present minor, effect on actual artistic expression. Often that of other people on the left. That can't be good. The Carlson-Wee thing has been covered here in detail, mainly by me and Andrew going at it at some length, with me no doubt going over the top at some points. But that's why I like the Sphere: length and nuance are allowed and people remain friends (usually! )

https://www.ablemuse.com/erato/showt...light=Atlantic

I've never done Twitter. I don't think it's for me.
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Unread 02-11-2019, 10:18 AM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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I've been thinking a lot lately about attitudes toward duality, especially with regard to us-vs.-them thinking, which of course relates to identity.

Certain strands of Western thought distinguish between contrasting things in terms of polar opposition--good vs. evil--while certain strands of Eastern thought tend to see contrasting things in terms of balance: Everything yang has some yin in it, and vice versa, and the purity of an extreme is to be avoided, not sought.

This splitting of good and evil comes up again and again in Western thought. One example that a friend and I were recently discussing, in a poetic context, was the mortification of the flesh (self-flagellation, anorexia, sleep deprival, etc.) that some Roman Catholic saints and poets thought was the way to achieve spiritual purity. They rejected and controlled and battled against the body, which they characterized as inherently sinful. Because if the soul is good, the body must be evil, right?

Other examples of that mindset of polar opposition would be political extremism, racism, misogyny, and homophobia (the latter two being similar in their idealization of a certain definition of maleness as the only possible example of goodness).

That sort of psychological splitting of everything into rigid dichotomies, between which compromise is undesirable, is characteristic of a lot of mental disorders, too. Including narcissism, which is of course all about identity.

Yesterday I was listening to an hour-long interview (you can click on the link below to hear the audio or read the transcript) with author Iain McGilchrist, in which he discussed why our brains have two hemispheres which process reality differently; why every individual needs both of them; and why Western society's glorification of the left brain (focus, fine detail, literality, logic) over the right brain (big-picture context, abstraction, nuance, empathy, emotion--except for anger, which seems to be located in the left brain) is problematic. Apparently his book has been available for almost a decade, but this was the first I'd heard of it.

One Head, Two Brains: How The Brain's Hemispheres Shape The World We See

If you don't have time for the longer interview, here's an 11-minute version on YouTube. (My own brain can't process what he says while the distracting visuals are going on, but it's definitely worth listening to.)

As a pretty stereotypically left-brain-dominant person myself, who definitely struggles with handicaps due to my inability to do certain right-brained things well (facial recognition and reading others' emotions both seem like superpowers to me), I was sorry to see the left-brain/right-brain model discredited in the early 2000s, because I found it useful in many ways. That model really does explain a lot, both on a personal and a societal level. I'm glad to see that model rehabilitated (with some important caveats), in a more balance-between-yin-and-yang sort of way.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 02-11-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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Unread 02-11-2019, 10:38 AM
John Isbell John Isbell is offline
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My brother has a theory that frying pans are typically Western - they attack the food - whereas woks cooperate with it.

Cheers,
John
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Unread 02-11-2019, 03:44 PM
James Brancheau James Brancheau is offline
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Hahahaha, Christ, John. It is also how one handles the pan. Pans don't kill food. People kill food.

I'm not opposed to identifying as a group~ there's real empowerment there. It's a political necessity sometimes. But it doesn't mean that expressing that identity is what makes it art. There seems to be a bewildering, to my mind, confusion in that regard. We (us lefties who also fancy ourselves artists) must be held to a higher standard. Write an opinion piece, protest, write a speech if you want. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive, of course, but, imo, when the individual voice is lost, the poet is fatally compromised.
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Unread 02-14-2019, 11:27 PM
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R. S. Gwynn R. S. Gwynn is offline
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Julie Steiner said: "Certain strands of Western thought distinguish between contrasting things in terms of polar opposition--good vs. evil--while certain strands of Eastern thought tend to see contrasting things in terms of balance: Everything yang has some yin in it, and vice versa, and the purity of an extreme is to be avoided, not sought."

With all due respect to Julie, I think a lot of us tend to generalize about ("certain strands of") Western vs. Eastern thought and perhaps valorize the latter. I wonder if there's really that much difference historically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_death_toll
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