Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 11-06-2024, 07:45 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 691
Default

Hi, Carl

Thanks so much for your detailed critiques! I appreciate the time and effort you always put into your responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Copeland View Post
L2: I had trouble with several of the “pentameters,” but the first, in particular, I had to mentally rearrange to see if I could get the gist. To be fair, I don’t understand the crib either. She’ll hear rumors that he’s being lazy and delay her return for that reason?
I think it means that the N has been moping and staying home because his girlfriend is away. His friends are taking him to task for not participating in the social whirl. He tells them to blame Cynthia. I’ll try to make it clearer. Apparently their relationship is on hiatus and she may have defected to a distant rival (although this may just be the N’s suspicion.). Their relationship seems very similar to that of Catullus and Clodia/Lesbia. The identity of Cynthia is something of a mystery. Some sources suggest that she was a courtesan. Apuleius, almost 200 years after the fact, identified her as Hostia, a wealthy married woman who was notorious for her many affairs. Sound familiar? As a married woman, she probably had to accompany her husband on trips, or may have ducked down to Baiae for some fun in the sun. Interestingly, Propertius only mentions her lovers, never her husband..

L4: Do you want the flagrantly anachronistic “Ukraine”? I don’t think that term came into use till early modern times.
The Hypanis River is the Bug, which empties into the Black Sea near Odesa. I liked the precision of “Ukraine.” Other translators use either “Russian,” which is equally anachronistic, or “Sarmatian,” which sends the reader to google the ancient geography.

L5: The natural stressing would be “does NOT.” Luckily, you can get the stress on “does” by contracting it to “doesn’t.”
Good suggestion

L6: This pentameter is twisted out of shape too. It could mean he doesn’t hear her voice when she hugs him. Not very logical, I admit, but do you want the ambiguity?
I see your point. I’ll try to clarify this

L8: Another convoluted pentameter. Wouldn’t someone who had “the same skill” give similarly faithful love (as in the crib), rather than more faithful? “That I swore” is a confusing rhyme-driven addition.
I had hoped to suggest a hint of self-mockery with “skill” and “that I swore,” indicating, perhaps, that the N is proud of his lovemaking and regards it as more of a performance than a sincere expression of his passion. The caesura after “. . .had the same skill to give more” invites the reader to complete the line with “pleasure” or something similar. The restrained “faith” comes as a mildly humorous surprise. His willingness to consider switching mistresses in LL17-18 make the intensity of his faithfulness somewhat suspect.

L10: You need commas around “splitting us.” Done.

L11: This line is apparently close to the original, but strange nonetheless. I first thought the N was a girl, but this isn’t Sappho, so I guess not. Then I thought she’d been changed by her travels, so he doesn’t feel the same way about her any more. That doesn’t work well in context, so by process of elimination, I decided it must mean “I am no longer who I was (in her eyes).” BTW, this is the only hexameter line to end on a stress, and it’s followed by the only two hemistiches with “feminine” endings. Greek and presumably Latin elegiacs are riddled with irregularities, but I don’t think either of these is a permissible variation.
This puzzled me, too. I supposed that he meant that both he and his girlfriend will change during their time apart, putting the continuation of their affair at risk. I had already changed “girls” to “lasses.”

L14: The natural stressing is “seems VILE.” Fixed.

L16: I’d lowercase “Doubtlessly” and add a comma after it. Done.

L17: I don’t think “or, if” makes a grammatical connection here. The sentence comes out: “Happy is he who was able to weep … or [he may be happy?] if he can alter the heat of his passion.” I followed the punctuation in the Perseus Project text, which was, of course, added by an editor— in this case, Vincent Katz. In his English translation, he got rid of the parentheses and made two sentences out of LL15-18. I’ll revisit these.

L20: Natural stressing would be “was NUMber.” I fixed it, but I like it even less than what I had before.

I hope some of this is helpful. Thanks for another great lesson in Latin lit!
Thanks again, Carl! These comments were very helpful!

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 11-07-2024 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,504
Total Threads: 22,602
Total Posts: 278,822
There are 2031 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online