[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

I'm coming to the conclusion that Sarah Palin is Moosehunter Barbie.

That said, while I think McCain's choice of VP was a matter of calculated cynicism, it's always a matter of calculated cynicism. And with the Republican part especially, the goal is to assemble a winning team, not a competent team who can actually do the right thing once they're running the country.

Palin may pick up a few stray Yellow Dog Feminists who will vote for anything with a womb, but for the most part, the women wanting Hillary wanted what she stood for, and the fact of her gender was just icing on the cake. They'd never want the crock, ahem, cake, Palin's selling, even if it does come with the same icing.

The women it will appeal to are the various beer-drinking blue-collar soccer moms Hillary was pandering to at the end of her campaign, especially if they're Pro-Life Christian, and the other Pro-Life Christian types who didn't like McCain now at least have a reason to go out and vote for him, rather than stay home which is what they'd do if were he to pick anyone Pro-Choice.

She also clearly appeals to the NRA vote, and not in the obvious oblivious pandering way (thank you, Mr. Cheney, for shooting your friend in the face), and that's another point to shoring up the base. It does jack once you get elected, mind you, but the game of election doesn't care.

The business with her having the child with Downs syndrome who needs to be cared for.... She also has a husband who's a devoted stay-at-home dad, and liberals will shoot themselves in the foot if they question his competence or right to care for his own child while his wife takes care of the family fortunes.

She also wants Creationism in the classroom, which I find both annoying and creepy, but that doesn't change the fact that it's good for a turn-out-the-votes in the Republican whacky Christian base. And she soft-pedals it enough to say that it's just "talking" about it, nevermind the fact that the only place Creationism belongs in public schools is in social studies when discussing the history and beliefs of world religions.

As for debating, she looks like she's fairly keen and good on her feet, which should prove less embarrassing than Quayle or for that matter W.

It's going to get interesting.

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by David Rosenthal:
What I meant in my admittedly flippant post was that the selection of a VP candidate hasn't seemed to have had much impact on the outcome of the election in recent history. That is, most voters vote for the headliner they like best, regardless of the running mate.

Ah, that's different. I wondered what you meant, to be honest. It didn't sound like a theory you'd subscribe to - especially after mentioned Quayle and Agnew.

You're totally right, unfortunately. Much like a rock concert - no one goes to see the back-up band or the opening act.

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by Kevin Andrew Murphy:
I'm coming to the conclusion that Sarah Palin is Moosehunter Barbie.

ROFLMAO I love it!!!

Lo

P.S. I did not realize her husband was a stay-at-home father. I was under the impression that he was some sort of middle management for BP oil.

Now I've got to go check that. < sigh > This self-appointed fact-checking position is cutting into my poker time.

second edition

Ok....I've found several conflicting reports on what Todd Palin does nowdays.

The National Govenors Association has him listed as as a production operator on the North Slope and a four-time champion of the Iron Dog.

Military.com has him as a blue-collar North Slope oil worker.

Zimbio.com says Since his wife's inauguration as Alaska Governor, Todd Palin has been a devoted house husband and father of five, cooking meals and making sure younger children Bristol, Willow, and Piper make it to extracurricular activities.

The Anchorage Daily News says, Todd Palin, Alaska's new first spouse, has taken a leave of absence from his blue-collar job working on the North Slope for BP. Palin, husband of newly elected Gov. Sarah Palin of Wasilla, will instead work part-time for his union, the United Steelworkers Local 4959, according to officials with the union and BP. The agreement between the British oil giant and the union allows Palin to come back to his job within a year and keep his seniority.

OpEdNews seems to agree with Anchorage and Zimbio and says,
Palin is a union member belonging to the United Steel, Paper and Forestry, Rubber, Manufacturing, Energy, Allied Industrial and Service Workers International Union (United Steelworkers).[4] For 18 years, he worked for BP in the North Slope oil fields of Alaska. In 2007, in order to avoid a conflict of interest, he quit his job as production supervisor when his employer became involved in natural gas pipeline negotiations with his wife's administration.[1] In addition to his duties as First Gentleman, he is a commercial salmon fisherman at Bristol Bay on the Nushugak River.

So - apparently he's taken a leave of absence from The Oil Industry but he's left his options open and he's stayed active in The United Steelworkers Union.




[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited August 30, 2008).]

[eaf]

...

A ballot initiative to stop the aerial (same-day) shooting of bears and wolves failed by popular vote just a few days ago, so obviously a majority of the population is okay with it. We are a red state, after all.

-eaf


[This message has been edited by eaf (edited August 30, 2008).]

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by eaf:
...

A ballot initiative to stop the aerial (same-day) shooting of bears and wolves failed by popular vote just a few days ago, so obviously a majority of the population is okay with it. We are a red state, after all.

-eaf

The article I read which said the people opposed it was written by a group called "Defenders of Justice" and stated:

A letter sent today to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin from nearly 200 scientists states, “We urge the State of Alaska to consider the ecological role that large predators play in preventing eruptions and crashes [of prey populations], and to consider conservation and preservation of predators on an equal basis with the goal of producing more ungulates for hunters.”

For more than a decade, the citizens of Alaska have voiced opposition to much aerial wildlife hunting and have twice voted to put an end to the state’s use of aircraft to kill wolves. But each time, the legislature has overturned the will of the people.

“The intent of Alaska’s citizens is clear,” said Joel Bennett, former member of the Alaska Board of Game. “We have voted against the practice of private hunters using aircraft to hunt wolves twice now, only to have our vote overturned both times. It is obvious we need the support of Congress to close this loophole.”
http://www.defenders.org/newsroom/pr...2007/index.php

{Click on September 25, 2007)


Just goes to show me, once again, that you can't believe everything you read.

Thanks, eaf.

Lo



[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited August 30, 2008).]

[Anne Bryant-Hamon]

Lo,

Without writing an essay, I just want to say that my assessment was my speculation of those facts and rumors through the eyes of a right-wing extremist. For example, I think it would be an issue in the "Dr. James Dobson" camps if they knew that Palin's 17-year-old unmarried daughter was pregnant. Why? Because they teach and insist that abstinence is the only acceptable life-style. I was not judging people who are pregnant and unmarried. You often have a way of twisting my points.

As for having five children when one cannot provide for them without robbing them of time with mother, I am old fashioned -- I think it is neglect, most especially though when it is not necessary. This is clearly a woman who pops out children and then puts her career first. More commonly, women who want a time-consuming career, choose to at least have fewer children. I think it is poor family planning in her case. However, those in the funda-gelical camp don't believe in family planning or a woman's choice.

This choice of John McCain's is (IMO) an insult to women.

It will not surprise me if they actually do win because even though the Democrats are once again united, our country clearly is not. Could be that we are in a season of extreme outcomes. Only God knows for sure. I suppose I have better ways to use my time than try to be a political pundit.

I'm done discussing politics with you because I find your responses are more aggressive than is necessary and therefore, I usually regret any discussion of the issues with you. And no one else seems to be in the mood to exchange views. Continue on with your expert political analysis.

Anne



[This message has been edited by Anne Bryant-Hamon (edited August 31, 2008).]

[Anne Bryant-Hamon]

Lo wrote:

And that would prove what, Anne? My mother is Catholic and she believes that, my son is Baptist and he believes that. I'd still trust them both with my life. What people believe is or should be a non-issue. When and if they attempt to order me to believe it, then and only then does it become an issue.

p.s. I do not trust Catholics or Baptists with my life. That is my point. I do not want to live in a theocratic fascist concoction. There is a good reason why our founders insisted on separation of church and state. They knew that the mixture of the two was deadly. The right wing DOES want to dictate their beliefs upon society, and though I am a person of faith, I find that to be a seriously dangerous thing.

It was hypocritical right off the bat for Mrs. Palin to stand there and thank Hillary Clinton, Geraldine Ferraro, and Janet Reno! These are women that the right wing would burn at the stake since they really do believe in a God who plans to send such ones to eternal torment for not being in the right church, making the right confession, etc... Those are the worst kind of believers and they are they people who want to completely take over our government and bring our country to its knees. That is exactly my opinion. I guess I'm an extremist in my own right.

Anne

p.p.s. I hadn't scoured the web as you had Lo, and had only heard of the rumor on Talk Radio. I don't spend all of my time on-line, though it may appear so. But apparently, the word has been traveling fast around the internet about this suspicious pregnancy. I think the voters do have the right to decide whether or not they think Sarah Palin is a liar:

Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother - she is the GRANDmother!

[This message has been edited by Anne Bryant-Hamon (edited August 31, 2008).]

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

[quote]Originally posted by Anne Bryant-Hamon:

p.s. I do not trust Catholics or Baptists with my life. That is my point.

How about Jews or Muslims or Jahovah Witnesses, or Buddhists or a member of any other organized religion? Do you really think that any one who belongs to an organized religion is to be mistrusted solely on the basis of belonging to a church or is it people of only specific religions you fear? That implies a certain amount of prejudging and prejudice that I'm pretty sure Jesus would have preached against. It also ticks off the Catholics and the Baptists - plenty of them who are here and reading this. Do you think for a minute that if you were in the back of my ambulance that I would let anything happen to you if I could possibly help it? That I couldn't be trusted with saving your life simply because I was a practicing Catholic at one time?

That is exactly my opinion. I guess I'm an extremist in my own right.

Well, if you're not, you certainly give a good impression of one.

I'm not picking on you, Anne, nor am I trying to twist your words. Your words are there for anyone to read - if they're occasionally misinterpreted it may be the reader's fault - if it happens consistantly, it may be your own.

I think you're a fairly intelligent woman that I spend a lot of time replying to because, for some reason, I think it might be possible to make you understand that extremism in any form defeats the purpose of the extremist. Having an opinion is fine, having a very strong opinion is also fine, but being agressive with it, being inflexible with it, being overwrought and dramatic (i.e. they'd burn them at the stake)is a total turn off for many more moderate-minded people. It renders them unable to take the speaker seriously. While I think your motives are good, I also think you do more harm to your cause and to yourself than good - no one has been burnt at the stake in decades if not centuries - to say it's going to happen, even if you're speaking figuratively, is just over-the-top overkill. It comes across as the same kind of overwrought hype that the right wing you detest uses and people give it (and by extension, you) the same sort of credence - which is to say "none."

It stops conversations dead because most people are reluctant to take on a fanatic of any sort - they're closed minded individuals for the most part and it's like talking to a wall.

I think you're interested and interesting enough in things to wish to keep a dialogue going - but it's only going to happen if you're willing to stay civil and not start calling people or groups names and accusing them of things like wanting to burn others at the stake.

People of other faiths and religions and people with differing political views can teach us just as much if not more than people we agree with can - but not if we make them feel dissed right off the bat by making wild accusations and pronouncements about their sanity.

You gotta realize, they think you're every bit as insane as you think they are.

The only way to convince them you're not is by remaining open-minded enough to allow them their opinions, too.

You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to respect it.

You don't have to vote for Palin and McCain, but this is America, they've got the right to run and the right to be heard - as do their supporters.

As do you.

And me.

Obama's world is big enough to allow us all to be heard and respected - your's should be, too.

God Bless Us Every One.

Lo



[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited August 31, 2008).]

[Robert J. Clawson]

Originally posted by Gail White:

...the Democrats could have won by nominating any presentable white guy in a flag pin. Instead, they offered a choice between a black guy and a female.

The nomination process was long, Gail. It began with over a half dozen potential nominees. Not only were there a couple dozen debates, there was plenty of campaigning for votes in most of the states, including full primaries and caucuses. It was the most hard-fought nomination process I've witnessed. VOTING BY CITIZENS, from both parties and independents, plus thousands of new and young voters, determined the eventual winner. You make it sound as though Democratic Party leadership made this happen, but I think it was a fine example of democracy in action. The leadership couldn't stop Obama: he won it by running a fine campaign, meeting the toughest test to show himself worthy as a leader. Compared with the crucible in which Barack and Hillary fought it out, McCain had it easy.

If Obama can't win the white male vote, it'll say more about the white male than the Democratic Party.

Shameless O'Honky

[Anne Bryant-Hamon]

How about Jews or Muslims or Jahovah Witnesses, or Buddhists

I know of no Jew, Jehovah's Witness or Buddhist that teaches an image of God as being an unforgiving, furious Deity. I don't personally know any Muslims, but from what I understand, their image of God is often as skewed as the typical right-wing Christian. I simply do not want people with those images of God governing the people. That's all. The extreme right-wing has dug America into this grave situation by believing that they had a mission to rule the whole world by force. And just because you happen to have those type of people in your own family doesn't change my opinion - I have a couple in mine as well. And the fact is, it is THEY who insist on extreme dogmatism and are not open-minded. As I've said before, I know atheists that I trust more than very religious people. The only way for me to stay in the good graces of my one and only biological sister is to never discuss God or politics with her. And so it seems that that is a reflection of the way America is right now - pretty much divided because of these issues. Perhaps that is not going to change.

Anne

[This message has been edited by Anne Bryant-Hamon (edited August 31, 2008).]