[Mark Allinson]

Obviously Anna was talented before she enrolled, and she's even pointed out that her writing style hasn't changed much since then, so why did they laugh in her face when she asked to give a reading?

My answer would be that the person she asked was a shallow snob, and I would not want that person's approbation under any circumstances.

And yes, I do believe such things go on in po-business, which is why I choose to stay well away from it.

But when it comes to publication (and you are an editor, Rose, so you can answer): here are two poems to choose from: a brilliant piece from a retired baker, and a worthy but rather dull piece from an MFA - which do you take?

A mag choosing poems on the basis of the poet's academic qualifications would soon end up a laughing stock, I would suggest.

But then again, for as long as poetry is only being read by poets, any sort of cliquey stuff is possible, I suppose.


(Shudder).



[This message has been edited by Mark Allinson (edited November 22, 2006).]

[Carol Taylor]

I don't submit to local journals, so I wouldn't know what they take. From what I've seen I suspect just about anything. There are exceptions, of course, but when you submit to national and international publications it helps to have credits or a recommendation from somebody who has. That's because publishing is a business, and magazines are trying to make a name for themselves in a niche market. The supply of material--even good material--greatly exceeds the demand. Joe the Rag Man's name won't sell subscriptions or draw well-known poets to a reading event. So Famous Poet will get crap published while Joe S. gets better work rejected. Unless his name or the name of the referrer sends up a flag, he may not even get his submission read before it's dumped on the reject pile.

Getting started is like applying for your first credit card. The application asks you to list three or four major credit card accounts--just to make sure somebody else has taken a chance on you first. Once you get established you start receiving unsolicited pre-approvals, and the cards you have keep upping your credit line hoping you'll buy a car.

As for recognizing and opting for a superior poem over a poem by a known writer, who decides what is superior and what isn't? There must be at least as many opinions as there are poets. Besides, all those other publications can't be wrong...

Carol

[Mark Allinson]

That's because publishing is a business, and magazines are trying to make a name for themselves in a niche market.

That's right, Carol. And for as long as po-mags are a "niche business", selling their product to a more or less tiny, captured audience of submitter/readers, this sort of in-crowd bias is likely.

And while I would always agree that personal taste is a factor in deciding which is the "better" poem, I believe we can all tell when the difference between a hair-bristler and a yawner.

[Rose Kelleher]

Anna, I hope it's clear I'm not dissing you or your course of study. What I object to is the dismissive treatment you received before you enrolled.

Mark, I know what I would do, but I can't vouch for all other editors. Lots of them print poems I think are rather dull.

[Janet Kenny]

Anna,
I second Rose in saying I'm not "dissing" you either("what ever that means?" she mumbled in Fraffly

Since I have no hope of entering the caucus race I must just blunder on.

More power to you,
Janet

[Mark Allinson]

Lots of them print poems I think are rather dull.

But maybe the poets' qualifications are really excellent.

[Janet Kenny]

Originally posted by Carol Taylor:

As for recognizing and opting for a superior poem over a poem by a known writer, who decides what is superior and what isn't? There must be at least as many opinions as there are poets. Besides, all those other publications can't be wrong...

Carol,
If only they "recognise" the poem with their gut and brain and not with their fashion sense.

I think all those publications are often wrong. But together they are strong
That episode of "Seinfeld" where everyone started eating their "Snicker?" bar with a knife and fork was pretty spot on.
Janet

[Mark Allinson]

But Janet, why would you even want to be part of such an in-crowd, and be published for who, not what, you are?

This is why I would prefer to publish in e-mags like TSCR, where po-snobs will never submit.

[Anna M Evans]

Don't worry about upsetting me, Rose & Janet. I'm pretty ambivalent about the MFA myself, to be honest, although I do think it's been beneficial for me in several ways.

And I'd like to remind everyone that I am in The Shit Creek Review...



Anna

[Mark Allinson]

"And I'd like to remind everyone that I am in The Shit Creek Review..."

That's right, Anna.

It's one of those pubs where we "met" recently.