[Robert Pecotte]

Lee,

I asked you to chop them and cook them, so I don’t mind the comments. In fact, I find most of them quite helpful. Don’t worry about the Novocain…the needle is supposed to pinch, especially in the hard palate.

Until last week, I had been about 6 months between poems…I’m afraid that it shows more than I know.

Thanks for the help, the encouragement and the challenges. All of it is much appreciated.

Fr. RP


A little work on some of the previously posted Haiku:


Orion rising
the soft crunch of snow (was ‘the sound of snow’)
beneath my feet

along the alley— (was ‘Winter night’)
shadows shiver
around the barrel

another memo… (was ‘early Autumn’)
the sound of leaves falling
in my office

lights out (was ‘late night’)
spring’s first fly
bounces off the wall

yellow moon
on the icy prairie… (was ‘along the icy prairie…’)
chimney smoke (was ‘coming home’)

[Lee Gurga]

Originally posted by Chiago Mapocho:
Lee Gurga,

I appreciate the time you have taken with these poemlets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firefish
on firewood.
not sure i get this one. are the 'firefish' flames in the shape of fish or are they something else i am not familiar with?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are two kinds of firefish: purple firefish and Devil firefish. What I wanted to do here was have the fish out of its element--water--and work in a scene evoking the exact opposite--fire--, without making it surreal. After all, grilling fish isn't unusual. There's no verb to open up the possibilities of what it does on the firewood. Personally, I imagined three scenes: one, firefish grilled on the flames from the firewood; two, firefish scorched to ashes on the firewood; and three, firefish laying on a non-burning firewood.

In all cases, the exclusion of the N was because I hoped his involvement would be implied by the fact that once someone had to put the fish on the firewood (and this way, also create a period of time in the poemlet).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_firefish


seems just a bit pondeous, don't you think?
That leads me to a question. Can didacticism have anything to do in a haiku, or is it too guiding, limiting?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
seven dead fireflies
make a puddle two toes
in front of your shoes.
not sure i can put this all together


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about(?):

dead fireflies
pool the waxed porch
two toes in front of your shoes.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
waxwings scallop
a part of Innisfree
with wingtips and will
i think this is the most successful so far. a am assuming you are referring to the garden. my only question here is why "a part"?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted Innisfree to be loose enough to be both an image of what happens on the isle and on the lake. Come to think of it, though, Lough Gill would be better, in that the image of the waxwing scalloping on land seems a bit too hazy. In the lake, wingtips "scallop" a part of Innisfree (a part because wingtips rippling an entire lake would be surreal).


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
unfolding white chadors
on green roofs
mountain and treetops
has a certain spaciousness that is appealing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone having seen how cabins built near trees and cliffs can be snowed down in winter, I hope, will identify with this image. I'm wondering if chador is evoking the wrong associations, though. Maybe "winter coats" (though it is a less apt metaphor), or "white parkas /anoraks"?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
not sure whay "crocket" is here. The only definition i can find is an architectural ornament, and that doesn't seem to fit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I must apologise for that confusion--as well as with "gretters". For what it's worth, I meant to write "croquet".


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sahara desert
shapes stretchïng over sand
shadows walking
just seems to be a picture


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you elaborate on this one? I'm wondering the second line is misleading, rather than grounding the last line.

Thank you a lot for you spirit and helpfullness.

Best regards,
Mapocho
Would you elaborate on this one? I'm wondering the second line is misleading, rather than grounding the last line.

I will be glad to make some more comments, though I don't expect they will be very helpful.

Firefish: Thanks for the explanation. Still doesn't do much for me. "firefish on firewood." Still not taking me anywhere. Don't know who or what you are referring to by "N", i am afraid.

Dead fireflies: I am afraid my first difficulty in responding to this is that i haven't any idea what two toes are doing in the poem and what their possible relationship to the fireflies.

Didacticism: No, i don't think there is any room for didacticism in haiku. Meaning, certainly, but ponderous, heavy-handed attempts to impose meaning on the reader--this is how i interpret "didacticism--never.

Sahara: I am afraid i can't elaborate because i really can't plumb what your intended meaning is. if you could elaborate, then perhaps i could make some useful comments.

Sorry not to be of more help!

Lee

[Peter Coghill]

Can't not stick my head in and say thankyou for the comments. The mosquito haiku is delightful,
Peter

[Chiago Mapocho]

Firefish: Thanks for the explanation. Still doesn't do much for me. "firefish on firewood." Still not taking me anywhere. Don't know who or what you are referring to by "N", i am afraid.

Maybe taking the N's presence out is what keeps it from moving mountains or bricks. ("N" means the narrator of the scene.)

Dead fireflies: I am afraid my first difficulty in responding to this is that i haven't any idea what two toes are doing in the poem and what their possible relationship to the fireflies.

Two toes was supposed to startle, and also be linked to shoes. But, I admit that's farfetched. I'm still thinking of another way to measure the distance between the shoes and the fireflies. Perhaps, if it doesn't sound too 'easy' in its reaching, "a foot in front of your shoes" . . .

[/quote]Sahara: I am afraid i can't elaborate because i really can't plumb what your intended meaning is. if you could elaborate, then perhaps i could make some useful comments.[/quote]

That's what I was afraid. "shapes stretched on sand" was the shadows, the shadows moving because *something* moves. I didn't want to state that in the earlier version, thus ended up with "shapes stretched on sand" rather than a more concrete image, which I'm playing with below:

sahara desert
nomads and dromedaries across sand
shadows walking the way they do.

[Chiago Mapocho]

My last batch, this. I hope you don't mind me bringing it so close to the last one. I really appreciate your expertise and thoughful points. Your energy is admirable!

harmattan haze
arranging flowers
on the windowsill

fishingboats
navigate by icebergs
find whale and song

weird yesterday
a toad backpacking sun
jump through my swing gate.

one winter
I have a cup of tea
with a tiger and an owl.

seahorses
lost in midwinter shrubs.

puddles in schoolyards
oil on blacktop
washing a blood moon

bees and sunlight
travel on a wheelbarrow
air-travel is out

(or: a wheelbarrow
with ice
remembers spring,
blackbirds and bees / blackbirds and wings / bees and sunlight / water and bees)


no birds
in a weedksy
harrowic winds plow it for clouds

forgetting me
sunlight embrace
another grave



[This message has been edited by Chiago Mapocho (edited October 18, 2008).]

[Mary Meriam]

Lee, thank you so much. I just want to say a couple things about these.

(Cally, thanks.) In this one, I think the black wing is dipped into the moon's white paint, then brushing on the frost.

black wing
white moon
first frost

The fool is a clown with silly looking cherry tomatoes falling out of the eyes. On the kitschy side, a bit weird, I think.

cherry tomatoes
teardrops of
a lonely old fool

This one began with the third line like this: "without your flowers" - but I figured it was better to keep it simple -

muse
my vase is broken
without you

[Stephen Collington]

Hi Lee,

Well, I suppose I ought to take a turn here too! Twelve poems, three for each season--if you're willing to count "canning" as an autumn season topic. Ten of these were written in the last three weeks or so, one I wrote nearly twenty years ago, and one is a translation of something I originally wrote in Japanese. I wonder if you can spot the translation!

Anyway, please don't feel obliged to comment on all of them--or indeed any of them, for that matter. But if there's something here that interests you, good or bad, that you would enjoy discussing, I'd love to hear from you.

And Lee? Thank you again for another great day with us as our Distinguished Guest.

*

the chain kicks once, twice,
and with wobbling handlebars
spring is underway

meadow in flower
the dog returns with frisbee
happy face first

cats in love
people in love, and of course
yours truly, in love

bumble bees screwing
bored, she sticks out a long tongue
and sips some marigold

summer vacation
the wrigglers in the jam jar
have grown wings and drowned

L'été, c'est moi!
the monarch sails past nodding
sunflowers, is gone

plink! a pause, then plink!
plink! in the darkened kitchen
summer sealed in jars

golden orb weaver
goldenrod, golden summer
sun in September

autumn oak apple
the king of infinite space
long since departed

frost on the windows
Bob, who is not a lawyer,
lives next to the dentist

winter afternoon --
in the garage, the poisoned
mouse runs in circles

flushed cheeks, a straining
tear ooobehind her the window
fills with silent snow

Steve C.

*

p.s. Bonus haiga:



"Autumn Oak Apple" by Stephen Collington, 2008
Ball-point pen on back of page-a-day "Poetry Speaks" calendar paper, 109x107mm; collection of the artist

p.p.s. "Collection of the artist" indeed--hah! Bidding starts on eBay at $0.01.

*

Psst! . . . Haiga links up on Haiku Resources page!







[This message has been edited by Stephen Collington (edited October 19, 2008).]

[Brian Watson]

[reposted]



[This message has been edited by Brian Watson (edited October 20, 2008).]

[Seree Zohar]

Love the Haiga concept! and your sketch. I think there's quite a few of us at erato who are involved in some kind of art form. I especially enjoyed
http://haigaonline.com/issue9-1/trad...lides/01a.html

where some 15 different haikus were written for the one drawing. Thanks for all the links and tremendous amount of time and thought you've put into this, Stephen.

[Cally Conan-Davies]

Lee, and Mary, too.

Lee, I believe Mary's 'black wing' haiku is truly exceptional. I think it exemplifies every element you have focused on in your comments here, and that I have read in the links Stephen has given us.

The language is crisp. Couldn't be sharper.
It has the seasonal reference.
It is pure image - no interpretation, or intellectualisation.
It is circular.
It is open-ended.
It connects the reader to the transcendent spirit and the depths of the soul while remaining embedded in physical reality.

I found Mary's description of its creation so interesting.

Mary, I really am stunned by it. For me, this haiku recapitulates an essential aspect of human experience. Perhaps the central one. The 'black wing' of experience touching the innocent, pure 'white moon' mind, and bringing with it the 'first frost' - the awareness of mortality. I don't know if anyone has ever caught this universal truth in six words.

It reminds me so much of Blake's 'Songs of Innocence and Experience'.

Not only has it been wonderful to have Lee and Stephen's instruction and support during this event, it has also been wonderful to watch you mastering this difficult, frustrating, beautiful, breathtaking art form.

This has been the best experience I've had here on the 'sphere. Stimulating, inspiring, joyful. I can't thank you all enough.

Cally