[Marcia Karp]

Dear Norman,
   I think that if you look, you'll see similar proffering of bona fides whenever there is something that makes people uncomfortable about criticizing. You'll find them now on a thread for a ballad on the Metrical board.
   Sometimes it is the writer who put others on the defensive and demands to know that some imaginary objectivity is in place; sometimes it comes from the others themselves.
   It seems to me the same sorts of discussions happen in the larger world when charged subjects are involved. It may be unfortunate, though you have told the world about an aspect of your sexual responses as if it were pertinent. Maybe it is. Maybe certain discomforts are eased in this way. I do think you are, though, too narrow in coming to your grand conclusion and may have squandered your confession of discomfort.

Best,
Marcia

[John Riley]

Lance,

Is "I knew a girl from Nantucket" free verse?

John

[Roger Slater]

It's pre-emptive, Norman. The author of a sexually explicit poem often accuses negative critics of being prudes, so the critic needs to establish his or her credentials for ribaldry in order to have standing to say the poem is horrible.

[Maryann Corbett]

At least some of these discomforts are avoided if the poet writes "Content warning" in the subject line, which establishes that one reads with some understanding of what one will meet.

[Jan D. Hodge]

Lance wrote: "I see the decline of reserve connected closely to the rise of free verse. Reserve fit the metric poet like a glove. The constraint of feeling his way along the accentual topography went a long way towards keeping his more exuberant or downright formless feelings in check."

Ever read Rochester?? This is a rather dubious conflation . . . "Dirty" ditties (in meter, no less) have a long and distinguished history, among them dozens by, e.g., Robert Burns. You might also check out Ed McCurdy's splendid recordings of ribald songs from the Renaissance, "When Knighthood Was in Flower."

[David Landrum]

Rochester, yes--especially "Saint James Park" and "A Satire on Charles II." But also Martial, Catallus, Dante, Chaucer.

dwl

[Roger Slater]

Not to mention Benny Hill.

[Cally Conan-Davies]

I think Norman is in part referring to a thread - can't remember which now - where I mentioned, "that said" (I don't think I really said that!) Rochester is my great great great (don't know the exact accumulation of greatness) grandfather. What can I say? It's just...true! I love knowing that he's behind me, or front of me, in some way! I think he's great!

By the way, I want to come back as a bonobo.

Cally

[Richard Meyer]

Originally Posted by Cally Conan-Davies

By the way, I want to come back as a bonobo.

Cally, that's an excellent choice for reincarnation! Many years ago I saw a TV program about the bonobo chimps and their sexual practices. After watching the film, I just had to have a cigarette and glass of wine.

Richard

[Michael Cantor]

Be careful what you wish for, Cally. Bonobos don't weep.