[Yves S L]

Hello Max,

I read your article, but to properly scope out how you are applying an emotional/intellectual distinction to a subjective experience of poetry, then I would need a lot of more contrasting examples; otherwise, to take things through extremes, even mathematicians feel emotions while reading mathematical proofs, and computer programmers feel emotions while reading code, while painters apply conscious analyses to paintings, and musicians to music, and dancers to dance.

[W T Clark]

Max, out of interest, do you have the same reaction to Mandelstam's poem?

[Max Goodman]

Originally Posted by Yves S L

to properly scope out how you are applying an emotional/intellectual distinction

Hi, Yves,

I have no need to proselytize about that distinction. If the distinction doesn't naturally strike you, you aren't likely to find value in it. It's a way I can understand my reactions to poems, and Damian's thread helped me notice that short poems, even those that aren't humorous, tend to feel intellectual/light to me. It appears to be a minority reaction--which is fine; I only regret taking others' time with something that's more idiosyncratic to me than I realized.

Your comment that a turn is necessary to create emotion interests me. I've been pondering it. There are all sorts of turns, of course, and most jokes rely on a type, a turn that confounds an expectation they've set up. I associate emotion more with images and actions, but some of the short poems in the two threads under discussion present images that don't touch me, possibly because the poems haven't prepared me for them (and then presented them with turns). I'll continue to ponder the connection between turns and emotion.

Originally Posted by W T Clark

Max, out of interest, do you have the same reaction to Mandelstam's poem?

Hi, W.T.,

Though I doubt my response will be of interest, it would feel dismissive not to answer.

I'm not connecting with the Mandelshtam poem, though I don't doubt its power to connect with other readers. My (lack of) reaction is something I can't easily understand or explain.

I agree that its approach, particularly in the first three lines, is not intellectual.

In case it hasn't been clear (and that last comment may make it even less clear), neither "intellectual" nor "light" are bad things for me.

I appreciate the serious thought you and others have given to my questions.

[James Brancheau]

By word count, I'd consider this short. But who's counting? I Met A Genius, by Bukowski I've always loved. Pretty popular poem, I know, or was at one time. What I love about it is the observer, the speaker of the poem. That he remembered it and calls it genius.

https://allpoetry.com/I-Met-A-Genius

[Max Goodman]

Hi, James,

Did you mean your post to go in the Short Poems thread?

(I started this related but separate thread to avoid derailing that one, but I may have also caused some confusion.)

[James Brancheau]

No, I didn't. You wanted real poetry here, not jokes, right?

[Max Goodman]

Originally Posted by James Brancheau

You wanted real poetry here, not jokes, right?

I agree, James: that's poetry and not a joke.

For what it's worth (little enough, I've come to think) it strikes me as intellectual, entirely about what goes on in the speaker's (and boy's and reader's) head(s).

I do like the poem a lot (for what that's worth).

[James Brancheau]

Not that jokes can't be poetry. I went on about sense of humor once before, regrettably. Too much, of course. But it's a big deal, imo. Here's a clean one. Guy walks into a library and says I'd like to order a sandwich. The librarian says, sir, this is a library. So he leans in close and whispers, I'd like to order a sandwich.