Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 03-11-2025, 04:54 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 8,668
Default

I had the same troubles as Susan with FRA-gile, FU-tile, etc. For me, light verse brings stricter rhyme expectations — I like to hear all the rhymes click firmly into place in a funny poem, so that they don't draw attention from the other surprises.

I can feel your pain with the scenario. With one of my driver's license photos, the clerk actually SMIRKED when he looked at it, as if pleased that he'd saddled me with a particularly unflattering photo for the next ten years.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 03-11-2025 at 04:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 03-11-2025, 06:55 PM
Joe Crocker Joe Crocker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: York
Posts: 853
Default

Hi Jayne

You probably could find "ile" rhymes that better fitted formal stress expectations. But only if you really wanted to. I had a quick play and came up with this

And, worse, you’re not allowed to smile.
Passport pics are always vile,
…but they have to last for years!
How dare you say I’m juvenile!
Why not make rules more versatile?
My thoughts may fall upon deaf ears
but listen to the rank and file!
Let photos show us with some style
It doesn’t need to end in tears.

FWIW

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 03-11-2025, 06:55 PM
Jayne Osborn's Avatar
Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 7,199
Default

I feel your pain, too, Julie: ten years is a long time to be stuck with a horrible, unsmiling photo that you're forced to show to others.

I don't fully agree with you on "For me, light verse brings stricter rhyme expectations — I like to hear all the rhymes click firmly into place in a funny poem".

I particularly remember a very funny (and rather racy) poem from years ago, by someone I'm now out of touch with, which rhymed "gal" with "hospital", but he deliberately wrote it, and recited it, so that it came out as "hospit-AL", and everybody laughed at that point, which was the intention, of course - so I think there's a place for sometimes putting the em-PHAR-sis on the wrong syll-AR-ble, if it's for comic effect.

Having said that, though, I don't put that much emphasis on FU-tile and FRA-gile, so it depends how you read it, I suppose. The meter is established by then, so it's not too difficult to make it sound like the other stanzas.

I do take Susan's and your point, however, and thank you both for your thoughts, which I really appreciate.

Jayne

Joe. We cross-posted. Hey, your ideas are great! Many thanks. I'll have another look tomorrow, as it's midnight.

Last edited by Jayne Osborn; 03-11-2025 at 06:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 03-12-2025, 10:08 AM
Jayne Osborn's Avatar
Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 7,199
Default

Susan and Julie,
"Hostile", "fragile" and "futile" have now all gone! I was resigned to the fact that I couldn't change those words, but thanks to Joe's helpful suggestions I've revised the last stanza and it now does away with the problem of British v American pronunciation of those awkward words.

Joe,
Huge thanks again for your great suggestions. I've used "versatile" and "juvenile", and changed a few other bits in the last stanza too.

I hope you all like the revision.

Jayne
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 03-12-2025, 12:48 PM
Alex Pepple Alex Pepple is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,102
Blog Entries: 143
Default

Hello, Jayne,

This is delightful and very relatable! You've successfully captured the humorous frustration of dealing with the dreaded passport photo—enjoyable and relatable.

Your revision is indeed very effective and improves upon the original significantly. Especially, I do share the reservations expressed by some others about meter and rhyme in the original. But you’ve also improved on those aspects with the revision.

Good luck with this, Jayne!

Cheers,
...Alex
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 03-12-2025, 06:40 PM
Jayne Osborn's Avatar
Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 7,199
Default

Hi Alex,

Thank you. I'm glad you like the revisions - and I'm glad I was nudged into making them!

Jayne
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 03-13-2025, 05:53 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,554
Default

.
Interesting, light take on a deadly serious subject (Ha!). If you were to add anything more, it would surely be to mention the further humiliation given when the person who is checking your photo against you standing right in front of them immediately sees the resemblance!

If I were writing this poem it would be full of angst, but your take is the better take: light. The rhyme scheme is rather sing-songy, which is borderline cringy to my ear. But then again, so are official passport photos! Your unabashed humor is disarming and the lightness is somehow philosophic in the end.

For some reason my ear wants to hear the word "guile" in the last line of the poem. I was thinking something like:

..............................Meanwhile,
let photos demonstrate our style;
let our guile bring on grins – not tears!


with the metrics worked out.


There is a deeper, onion-like poem to be had from this conceit of the photo not matching the image we want ourselves to project. (I've always been puzzled by the story of Narcissus. I can't tell if it is more narcissistic to always be unhappy with your reflection or vice versa. I can't imagine falling in love with the reflection of myself in the water. Look away!)

Is "Mug Shots" the title? If so, there may be a better title to be had...

Your poems most often have no filter. I mean that in the best possible way. No pretense, no artifice. Just you being you. I want to be more like that.
.

Last edited by Jim Moonan; 03-13-2025 at 11:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 03-14-2025, 02:07 PM
Yves S L Yves S L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: London
Posts: 970
Default

Hello Jayne,

Reading the revision, it feels like the poem's rhyme and meter, line and sense making begins to strain significantly in the final stanza, but the effect is effective in signifying the increasing exasperation so I am cool with it! Yeah.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 03-15-2025, 08:21 AM
Jayne Osborn's Avatar
Jayne Osborn Jayne Osborn is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Middle England
Posts: 7,199
Default

Jim,
The dreaded new passports arrived five minutes ago, now duly signed and put in a drawer until, as you rightly say, we have to suffer the indignity of being instantly recognised from a dreadful photo!

"Guile" would be a good word to choose (I hadn't thought of that one) if the poem were to be any longer, but I only want the -ile rhymes at line ends, rather than internally as well.

I'm usually hopeless at thinking of titles, but I was actually very pleased when I came up with Mug Shots, the definition of which is a photographic portrait of a person from the shoulders up, typically taken after a person is placed under arrest. It amused me because the unsmiling, unflattering passport photo so often makes people look like a criminal.

As for "No pretense, no artifice. Just you being you," it's the way I've always written, and the only way I know how. I like the accessibility of everyday speech, whereas some poetry leaves me totally befuddled as to its meaning, which spoils the enjoyment for me. Call me lazy, if you like, but I really can't be bothered trying to figure out unintelligible writing if I don't understand what a poem is about!

Thanks again, Jim. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Yves,
Ha! Yes, the exasperation is the thing, isn't it? The taking of umpteen photos and deleting them each time, only to have the one you send off rejected because "It looks as if your eyes are closed." That's what happened, and I thought it was rubbish about my eyes - so the one they accepted has me looking like I've seen a ghost!

Thanks for being cool with the poem. It's intended to be a cross between making light of the issue and being genuinely frustrated by it.

Jayne
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 03-15-2025, 08:53 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,554
Default

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayne Osborn View Post
Jim,
I'm usually hopeless at thinking of titles, but I was actually very pleased when I came up with Mug Shots, the definition of which is a photographic portrait of a person from the shoulders up, typically taken after a person is placed under arrest. It amused me because the unsmiling, unflattering passport photo so often makes people look like a criminal.

I think you're right. I over-thought it and came to the erroneous conclusion that it was too much of an association with "criminal" — which I now come to realize that the unflattering photos are criminal!

.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,510
Total Threads: 22,635
Total Posts: 279,191
There are 1269 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online