[R. S. Gwynn]

I believe this is the correct painting, not the one that was posted earlier.
http://www.artmagick.com/paintings/painting2522.aspx

[Chris Childers]

I'm going to jump on the anti-bandwagon bandwagon also. "Stiffened" it is for me, too, primarily for the metrical reasons explained by Rhina, though secondarily I think Henry has made a good case for naturalness over "made stiff." At any rate, it had exactly the effect of "stiffening" the line that I think it was intended to have, and I like it very much, along with this whole poem. Quite outstanding, and serious congratulations are in order.

Chris

[peterjb]

Actually, both the links given in this thread lead to a painting called Vanity by Frank Cadogan Cowper, but it's not the same painting. It seems he painted this theme twice, first in 1907 and then in 1919, each time including a less-than-obvious mirror.

From some detail mentioned by Susan when this was discussed in The Deep End, I surmise that her very effective poem was inspired by the earlier version.

[Carol Taylor]

of cutwork oversleeves stiffened with braid

reads as tetrameter, because "oversleeves" carries significant stress only on its first syllable. By itself the word is dactyllic, like "overalls" or "oversight." You'd have to promote "sleeves" to get a fifth beat, and that would work only if "over" and "sleeves" were two separate words. If they were two separate words, which would change the meaning, the reversed foot would indeed be pleasing:

of cutwork over sleeves stiffened with braid

Carol

[oliver murray]

Originally posted by peterjb:


From some detail mentioned by Susan when this was discussed in The Deep End, I surmise that her very effective poem was inspired by the earlier version.

Yes, it was the original painting we looked at that had the cutwork oversleeves, though, indeed, there was no discernible mirror that I could see. I think it is the the fact that it is the cutwork which is stiffened with braid that makes "cutwork oversleeves" necessary, rather than "cutwork over sleeves" regardless of metric requirements. In any case, this reads nicely to me as two midline trochees and I like the line as it is.

Oliver.

[Bruce McBirney]

Oliver, the mirror in the earlier painting is hard to see, but her upper hand is holding the mirror's handle, and the mirror itself is just to the left of her hand. And, as Susan suggests in the poem, her eyes appear to be glancing down at it!

[Roger Slater]

Carol's point about the tetrameter line is a good one. Surprised that no one (myself included) notice it before. But "made stiff" would fix it, I think, introducing a nice ionic into the mix.

In L10, perhaps the "that" can be eliminated with "suggest she is embarrassed..."; though perhaps "is", which would draw a beat in that context, would be even flatter than an unstressed "that", come to think of it.

I love the frames around the poems and Rhina's comments, by the way.

[Susan McLean]

I have been very grateful for Rhina's commentary and for the additional comments, particularly Sam Gwynn's alerting me to the existence of another painting also titled "Vanity" by the same painter. I will have to include the earlier date in the subheading to avoid confusion. I am reluctant to discard "stiffened" for several reasons, though I appreciate that the line scans more easily with "made stiff." Unlike Carol, I hear a secondary stress on "sleeves," so I think the line does still have five beats. I chose the word "stiffened" partly because it sounded most natural to me, partly because I liked the effect of the reversed foot reinforcing the meaning, and partly because I intended it to carry sexual overtones, tying it to "below her waist" and "in what coin the piper must be paid." I mean to suggest a connection between female beauty, male desire, and money, in which the jewels and rich fabrics have less to do with aesthetics than with market value--a kind of sign saying "for sale--expensive." Physical beauty is always appealing, but I am put off by the idea of women exploiting it to sell themselves (in marriage or any other way). So the foolishness of vanity, in the painting, is that I assume the woman in the picture either doesn't know or doesn't care where her primping will lead. Most people haven't commented on this aspect of the poem; I am assuming it is because they haven't noticed it, though perhaps they have thought it too obvious to deserve comment. I like my poems to operate at multiple levels, and this level is buried the deepest, I think.

Susan

[Janet Kenny]

Susan I wanted to show you that the underlying meaning was appreciated from the start.
below her waist" and "in what coin the piper must be paid." I mean to suggest a connection between female beauty, male desire, and money, in which the jewels and rich fabrics have less to do with aesthetics than with market value--a kind of sign saying "for sale--expensive."

From my first crit of this wonderful sly poem:
"or in what coin the piper must be paid. [clever!]"

Janet

[Jim Hayes]

Tim wasn't exaggerating in the slightest when he termed this Nemerov material.
The various layers of meaning and intent are a joy and I couldn't agree more with Richard's comments about that last line- it's positioning and the rather self-effacing confession.

All its other qualities have been deservedly praised, I just want to express my admiration to Susan and my thanks to Tim and Rhina.