[Max Goodman]

There's nothing naturally vicious about pit bulls who aren't abused. Their strength and intelligence makes them the perfect choice for people who want to train dogs to fight; stories of common methods for training viciousness into them are horrific.

I've had more than a passing acquaintance with two pit bulls. One I found wandering lost and took home until the local animal shelter located her owner. Even my wife, who fears large dogs, came to have affection for that sweet-tempered, playful dog.

(I was concerned about returning her to her owner because her ears had been clipped in a way that suggested she'd been trained to fight. She was clearly thrilled, though, to be reunited, and the owner said it was a previous owner who had abused her, which I believe. So I'm convinced that even some some pit bulls who have been abused can recover their natural temperaments--apparently the same has happened with the Micheal Vick survivors.)

The other pit bull I've known belonged to a roommate with whom I shared an apartment for several months. When alone in the apartment, she had to be closed in her kennel because otherwise when thirsty she would leap to a counter and open a tap.

[Kevin Andrew Murphy]

The owners of my local campershell place have a pitbull named Stormy who comes and greets all the customers, and while you wait, sits at your feet and wants to be petted as much as you're willing. Apart from a disagreeably oily coat (you need to wash your hands afterwards), I have no problems with the dog, and in fact, she's one of the most pleasant and well-behaved shop pets I've ever met.

My sister worked as an animal health technician for a number of years and she said pitbulls came in two categories: psychotic with psychotic owners, and incredibly sweet with owners who basically had them as the family dog and liked dressing them up in spiked collars and harnesses they way other people used rhinestones and questionable sweaters.

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

I think we can all agree that when Sarah Palin made her "pit bull with lipstick" remark she was not referencing the breed's sweetness and intelligence.

Regardless of the breed's myrid capabilities, regardless of any one individual dog's pussycat personality, the characteristics readily associated with a pit bull are it's tenaciousness, it's ability to fight to the death and it's aggressiveness.

[John Whitworth]

Sorry, I'm a foreigner and I don't know nothing. What IS a community organiser? What does he/she do? I don't think we have them. I rather gather that Obama or Mrs Obama is or was a community organiser.

[Jerry Glenn Hartwig]

What's the difference between a community organizer and a chihuahua?

Let's see ... they both avoid direct confrontation, yet bark incessantly at you from a distance, they both nip at your heels when your back is turned...

Oh yeah! The chihuahua doesn't charge $13,000 a year for its services.

[Anne Bryant-Hamon]

Pit bulls are very nice and sweet dogs - until something unknown sets them off and they attack out of the blue. It can be years after acquiring one and long after they have been the dear sweet family dog that they snap. That is why it is difficult to reason with pit bull owners whose dogs have not done anything bad yet. They don't believe it is a problem with the breed until it is too late. I've petted nice pit bulls myself. But I've also read the stories and news accounts of people who were sooooooo surprised when their sweet and loving pit bull turned vicious without warning and attacked and killed children. I am glad that many cities were sensible enough to simply ban them. There are plenty of other dogs to choose from.

I like cats, but I wouldn't want a tiger or mountain lion for a pet.

[Donna English]

Originally posted by Mark Allinson:


Ha! The very idea that different types of dog, or even different individual dogs, have their own essential or inherent nature is patently absurd.

dogs are all born entirely blank slates. It is environment and environment alone that determines a dog’s nature. Everyone knows that.

And Googling about, I found many who support this view. And quite likely these are university educated people:

“Just like people, dogs are all blank slates at birth. How you socialize, train and treat your dog determines that dog's personality.”

“Aggressive dogs are MADE and not born. All puppies come into this world completely innocent. They are like blank slates that have yet to be written upon, and they become products of their environment and training, or lack thereof.”

Mark, I'm sure you found many to support that view. I know we agree on one thing--dogs are wonderful! I'm a huge dog lover. But think about it. After more than ten thousand years of domestication and selective breeding for specific pyhsical and mental traits the arguement that dogs are born blank slates in regard to their natures just doesn't hold up.

Whether it's their inward nature i.e. aggression, and submission, herding, hunting, swimming, guarding, quietness or vocalness, chasing, low and high energy levels, intelligence--which translates to trainability etc. or their physical size, coat and coloring the different breeds were created to fill the needs of people. Submissive, low energy dogs don't do well at guarding the house or nipping the heels of cattle. People knew this and bred the dogs accordingly. They allowed the dogs that showed the inate traits of brains, aggression and high energy (not to metion the physical characteristics) to breed with one another. The dogs that failed to show these traits were eliminated. Over the generations the traits became part of the breed, what seperated the breed from other breeds. That's how we got basset hounds and pomeranians, border collies and labs, chinese crested and pitbulls. They fill our needs for lap dogs and hunting dogs, herders and trackers. Now I do agree that proper, ongoing, comprehensive training can sometimes-most of the time--disguise and override these traits. But training cannot eliminate the essentialness of the breed. That's why so many dogs wind up in shelters, often mentally unstable because they have been deprived of stimulation, exercise, proper training and the opportunity to behave the a dog. People don't stop to think about a breeds inherent nature when they get a purebred. Someone would have a really hard time training a bassett hound to be a guard dog or cattle dog in the same way it's difficult to train a greyhound to sleep quietly in the backyard without chasing the bunnies and squirrels. It's like demanding that the shy, skinny kid be the quarterback on the football team or the high energy athlete to sit for hours on end stringing beads. Everyone is hurt by the situation--the dog who wants to do what he does best and the human who expects otherwise. It's possible,yes, but no one is really happy in the end. And there are too many people that don't have the time, inclination, nor ability to train their dog. The dog is in the little kennel all day til the owner gets home. Dog gets out, runs crazy through the house, bowls the kids over, chews up shoes, shits on the kitchen floor or-- if the dog is lucky-- drags the owner on a leash behind him.
In my opinion your stance only contributes to the problem. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, just trying to persuade you to think more about it. Hey, we both love dogs, right!

Best,
Donna





[This message has been edited by fivefootone (edited September 08, 2008).]

[Donna English]

What's the difference between a pitbull and a community organizer?

A pitbull bull shits on the floor of city hall.

A community organizer, sees the pile of shit, smells the stink, and with thought for others, cleans it up.

[Marion Shore]

What's the difference between a pitbull and a polar bear ?

The pitbull is not a threatened species.

[Marion Shore]

What's the difference between a pitbull and a community organizer?

A community organizer helps feed kids. A pitbull eats 'em.