[Holly Martins]

I've also typed in white the answer to my riddle.

[Terese Coe]

Posted my answers in white, as noted above

[Roger Slater]

OBSCURE RIDDLE

I'm right there up against your skin,
upon your head, before your eyes,
between the stars in sunless skies,
within the heart of deadly sin,

and yet I can't be viewed in light.
I do not take an eye to see,
or do I? Yes, improbably,
though blind men know my face by sight.

(darkness)

[FOsen]

When you were young I held you high,
although you turn your back to me
but don't stand up and do not lie,
and I'll still bear you patiently.

Chair


[Answer posted in white]

[Terese Coe]

Bob, yours is Darkness.

(Too easy)

[Roger Slater]

Too easy for what? I'm not giving away my daughter's hand in marriage to the one suitor who can answer the riddle. The question for me is whether it's a good poem in the voice of darkness, not whether you know it's darkness speaking.

J. Patrick Lewis has a riddle where the answer is "a peacock." The last line of the riddle is "I am your biggest fan." You can only see the humor if you know the answer. So knowing the answer doesn't ruin the poem, it makes the poem. The riddle part is just an enjoyable add-on.

[Terese Coe]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

Too easy for what? I'm not giving away my daughter's hand in marriage to the one suitor who can answer the riddle. The question for me is whether it's a good poem in the voice of darkness, not whether you know it's darkness speaking.

J. Patrick Lewis has a riddle where the answer is "a peacock." The last line of the riddle is "I am your biggest fan." You can only see the humor if you know the answer. So knowing the answer doesn't ruin the poem, it makes the poem. The riddle part is just an enjoyable add-on.

You sound angry, Bob, but I hope that's a mirage. No one said knowing the answer ruins the poem, of course. And while that may (partially? You didn't quote the entire riddle) be true in Lewis' riddle, it's certainly not always true. For me, the challenge of a good riddle poem is much like that of any riddle: to sort out the challenge in the riddle and wrack your brain (trial and error!) trying to figure it out. I've always thought a good riddle is supposed to be challenging.

There may be irony in the riddle poem before the answer is known, and I like those a lot. A difficult riddle gives you something to play with, spend some time on, like any puzzle. Children's riddles are another category, and the age of the child will be relevant.

To respond to something you said earlier, the fun of the riddle is not gone when the answer is known, in any case. There may be various layers of irony, and one still has to see whether the answer is really all there in the riddle, or whether other possible responses also follow the logic. Which, imo, isn't as neat as when there's only one possible answer.

It's an educational exercise, and the more irony the better. Whether the answer makes the riddle or not--well yes, but equally so is the challenge of the answer. It's a game. Games are played to win as well as to pass the time, have a learning experience and a laugh, match wits, and so on.

In any case, putting "Obscure" in the title pretty much gives it away.

May we ask some questions?

Jan, forgive my ignorance, but I don't see what "RR" has to do with your second stanza.

[Roger Slater]

Mirage, Terese. I'm not even slightly angry. But as someone who rarely solves riddles on his own, I'm invested in saying that solving the riddle is a relatively minor part of enjoying the riddle. But since Homer is said to have died out of frustration at not being able to solve a particular riddle, I can see that other people take the solving part a bit more seriously.

As far as Jan's riddle is concerned, though I certainly would not have guessed it in a million years, and I'm certain it could have killed Homer, I can well understand the explanation Jan gives in the white text. ReadeR -- the RR frame what every poet wants, a "reader", no?

[Terese Coe]

Apparently I'm way too dumb to be able to understand "eade" mixed into the code. I thought it was some kind of advanced code. Gad.

[Roger Slater]

I think I see what you're saying. But the way I look at it, the word reader is framed by the two letter R's, not the word eade --or at least it's fair to look at it that way.