[Janet Kenny]

How about a forum for just-born top-of-the-head poems?

There's a sticky saying "no poems in GT". OK How about a forum where spontaneous poetry can develop. Sometimes conversations in poetry. New, fresh poems similar to sketches by a painter? No limit on numbers of posts etc. A genuine scribbling pad?

[Janice D. Soderling]

Actually the sticky title is "About Poems on GT".

But after rereading the sticky, maybe I should add that the spur-of-the-moment text I posted above was intended to jocularly illustrate the difficulties of fixing a poem in any way except the way we do daily in the regular forums. Hopefully only a died-in-the-wool Flarfer or a very kind critter would confuse it with a real poem.

I am starting to feel like a nay-sayer but (sorry, Janet) this idea presents the same problems for me as the "Sucking Poem" forum. It siphons away some of the workshop strength to open a "Kiddies Pool" poem forum beside the "Today's Inspirational Thought" poem forum. In other words it dilutes participation in the creative forums already existing and opens for ego-enhancing fluff and flarf.

It seems to me that spontaneous poetry, sketches and poem development belong to a pre-workshop stage or perhaps in a blog if one wishes to document the rise and flow of their creative powers.

Why open a Repair Shop for things that aren't broken?

Mine is only one opinion though, and I may be an inane voice crying shriily in the poetic wilderness.

[Maryann Corbett]

Originally Posted by Janet Kenny

How about a forum for just-born top-of-the-head poems?

I've used other poetry boards for this, and over the years I've seen a number of people do the same. I can also see the sense of the "no kiddie pool" stance. Each of us should take his or her own revising ability as far as it will go, since every posted poem is a request for expenditure of time.

Terry's initial request was for a way to deal with work that we know is troubled. To me, the most interesting thing about the responses on the thread is that some of us don't distinguish between old, blocked, frustrating pieces and everything else. I'd like to ask more questions of those folks. Do you get the answers you feel you need if you simple post those pieces without additional explanation?

[Mike Todd]

I propose that we take the idea to its logical conclusion and let others write our poems for us.

Now, this isn't removing responsibility from authors; we will need to provide surrogate poets with a synopsis and a suggested form, not to mention style guidance and a potted personal philosophy. Moreover, we will still be responsible for contacting publishing houses and arranging readings etc. Altruistic surrogacy is to be encouraged, but this is the real world of course, and so we authors need to be aware that commercial surrogacy may become a viable market in due course. Needs must.

[David Rosenthal]

Originally Posted by Maryann Corbett

To me, the most interesting thing about the responses on the thread is that some of us don't distinguish between old, blocked, frustrating pieces and everything else.

I think I am one of those people, but it isn't that I don't distinguish between levels of quality, messiness, completeness, or whatever, but that I see the workshop as a place for seeking help for the whole range of problems.

Originally Posted by Maryann Corbett

I'd like to ask more questions of those folks. Do you get the answers you feel you need if you simple post those pieces without additional explanation?

Yep. See my current TDE thread. It was a frustrating, overworked mess that I had gone over so often through the years that I couldn't even remember why I had made most of the choices I'd made. I certainly didn't have much of an idea about what was good or bad about it. So I made the best draft of it I could and put it up. Three days, forty posts, five pages, and seven revisions later, I have a much better grip on it. For me, it was an incredibly productive exchange. It doesn't always go quite as well as that, but it does always prove worthwhile and helpful, for me.

David R.

[Janet Kenny]

I was assuming that the diligent and serious work on other forums would be the real strength but the necessary exploration by poets whose serious work is known on our other forums would be a creative spark which admitted that poetry exists on other planes as well.

Most of us are published poets. I don't sneer at sketches by known painters. I think that my suggestion is worthy of consideration. Improvisation is an essential part of all art forms including poetry. What would we lose if a dedicated forum existed which clearly was not part of the workshop forums?

We used to have great running poems that inspired all kinds of ideas and were often very funny. Interaction is part of the experience.

[Janice D. Soderling]

RE David's post #25 above concerning his TDE thread School Closure. Yes, that is an excellent example of workshopping a poem of the type Terry , Michael and Shaun seem to be talking about.

[Janet Kenny]

I have had many poems which I have almost entirely rewritten in workshops in the Deep End. Surely we already do salvage poems in that way? I know the rules say that "finished poems" should be posted there but many of us have entirely recreated poems there at various times.

That's why I made the other equally serious proposal. I think that fluency is an important aspect of poetry. Easy poetic exchanges may help to lessen the number of stinkers mentioned in other posts.

I hoped that Mike was joking.

[Michael Cantor]

Janet, it's very difficult to continue with the original discussion when you continually break in to change the subject and promote a completely different concept. If you're so convinced that this would work, why don't you please start your own thread, and I'll be happy to post there and explain what an awful idea it is.

[Janet Kenny]

Originally Posted by Michael Cantor

Janet, it's very difficult to continue with the original discussion when you continually break in to change the subject and promote a completely different concept. If you're so convinced that this would work, why don't you please start your own thread, and I'll be happy to post there and explain what an awful idea it is.

Sorry Michael. My idea was a response to the idea at the top of the thread. I only enlarged on it in response to the idea that I was proposing a "kiddies pool" which was not my intention at all.

I think the original idea in the thread is terrible. (Sorry Terry.) We already post poems in order to receive responses and help.

The proposal seems to be that we talk a lot about what we meant as well as showing what we haven't achieved. Since much of the best poetry doesn't start off intending to mean something I can't see much light at the end of that particular tunnel. I wouldn't dream of arguing against others having such a forum. I wouldn't trouble them at all.

I'm sure you have excellent arguments against my other idea.
I seem to remember that you were one of the most assiduous posters of spontaneous poems.

We are sometimes too serious to be taken seriously.