[William A. Baurle]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

I have an in-depth understanding of the law of defamation, William, which is why I was a bit confused at your invoking it to characterize criticism of the president of the United States. I think he's a lot like Hitler. Now that I've said it, do you honestly think I'm going to be held liable for damages for defaming him? Now Hitler, on the other hand, might have a case if he weren't dead!

Seriously, I don't think it's a good practice to wait until after Trump carries out his own holocaust before daring to use the H-word. I find the thinking expressed here by a Yale professor to be fairly compelling.

Roger/Bob, I have no doubts about your understanding of what defamation is. I put the link there as a reminder to any and all (including yours truly!) about the uselessness and potential harmfulness of throwing ad-homs around. I did it when I used the word "loony" a few times.

Guilty!

See?

It's a reminder, a cautionary gesture. Or I should say was, since I deleted the link out of my ongoing need to be as kind as possible.

No, of course you won't be held liable for comparing Trump to Hitler! I didn't say that you would, or anyone else. Did anyone notice my long explanation to Andrew, et al, about degrees of lies or falsehoods? Probably not.

Before I submit this post, let me repeat myself:

Comparisons of Trump to Hitler are premature, to say the least.

The key word is premature. I didn't say they were false.

***

And where's everyone's contributions to Ralph's (RCL's) thread in Drills & Amusements?

[Roger Slater]

Read the article I linked to. I don't think it's at all premature to take note of the history of Hitler's rise to power and to note troubling parallels in the rise of Trump. It's better to be premature than too late, in any event. If we insist that Hitler was a unique, non-replicable historical phenomenon and therefore do not worry about it happening again, we are committing a grave error. Again, read the article. I am certainly not claiming it is a certainty that Trump can or will succeed in become the next Hitler, but I am utterly convinced that he would if he could and that we should not let delicacy or denial keep us from the sort of vigilance that cannot be maintained if we exclude that possibility.

[William A. Baurle]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

Read the article I linked to. I don't think it's at all premature to take note of the history of Hitler's rise to power and to note troubling parallels in the rise of Trump. It's better to be premature than too late, in any event. If we insist that Hitler was a unique, non-replicable historical phenomenon and therefore do not worry about it happening again, we are committing a grave error. Again, read the article. I am certainly not claiming it is a certainty that Trump can or will succeed in become the next Hitler, but I am utterly convinced that he would if he could and that we should not let delicacy or denial keep us from the sort of vigilance that cannot be maintained if we exclude that possibility.

Roger, I agree with you. Let's all watch, and be on guard, very closely.

I read the article you linked to just now, and I decided to isolate these two bits just so you know I did read it, and because I think they're important:

If I say the government is one party and the press is the opposition, then I talk about an authoritarian state. This is regime change. - SZ article

Trump has unleashed public racism of a kind we have not seen for decades. - ibid

The second quote agrees with what I've said in other threads. Racists feel that they now have free rein to come into the open. I have co-workers and even family members who are throwing the N word around as if it's funny, the trendy thing to do. I have to be careful at work because my department supervisor is an outspoken Trump supporter, while my executive director is a strong "Oregon/Washington State liberal" (her words). If I lose my job due to pissing the wrong person off, I'm toast.

Back to Hitler. Bear in mind, Mein Kampf was published in 1925, long before his rise to power. In that book - which I haven't read because I refuse to read it - Hitler wrote, according to historian Ian Kershaw:

"...the nationalization of our masses will succeed only when, aside from all the positive struggle for the soul of our people, their international poisoners are exterminated."[11] - Wikipedia

When I say "premature", I mean just that. I don't mean, "incorrect", or anything else. Note the word, "exterminated". Trump has not used this kind of language.

Also, it seems to me that Hitler was far more intelligent than Trump. I might be wrong, but Trump seems a wee tad dim, if I may say so gently. Hitler wasn't dim, unfortunately for millions of people. Evil requires intelligence. It requires intellection, calculation, premeditation, and discipline. Stupidity and ignorance will get in the way of any wanna-be tyrant eventually, at least in the US. Hopefully! I pray I'm right. I could be wrong.

"Mine is the right to be wrong" - Ian Anderson, from "A Passion Play".

I don't want to sound isolationist. I know how precarious the situation is. I've jokingly (sort of) referred to the US as Rome in many posts. I believe we are vulnerable for lots of reasons. One being the too-comfy, hedonistic, pleasure-seeking attitude so many of us Romans...er...I mean Americans have. Another is the silly idea that "it can't happen here."

The Romans thought the same thing.

Have you read the New Yorker article Gregory P linked to? It's a good one. I'll add a quote from that:

By most accounts, the rioters were not part of the campus community and thus Berkeley was, as the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education noted, now being chastised for the behavior of people with whom it had no relationship and whom it had little capacity to control. - New Yorker article.

"Inept rogues" about sums up my feelings, though I should add, Jelani Cobb and I disagree on certain things.

More later.

[Roger Slater]

Fair enough, but Trump's not being as smart as Hitler hardly puts me at my ease. Trump was smart enough to get elected president, after all, so I think he passes the minimum threshold of intelligence to become a dictator as well. There are all kinds of intelligence -- intellectual, emotional, and dare I say, demagogic. Trump's DIQ is certainly in the genius range.

[William A. Baurle]

Just to lighten the mood, and for a bit of jocularity:

I looked up DIQ, and one of the matches was this,

http://www.abcunderwear.com/diq-bikini.html

^ DO NOT click this link— unless you want to see something that may be offensive, and/or cause major penis envy!

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

So before the protest the University was not going to prevent him from speaking despite his having outed a student in the past and threats to do so again. After the protest he didn't get the platform at Berkeley and it is unlikely they will double down and have him in the future.

Where is the inept part? Partly successful, partly not. Training for future. Imperfect but not inept.

What do you think it looks like to oppose fascism once it has a foothold when the police are more likely than not to be sympathetic to the brown shirts and the general populace is often too busy watching netflix to be bothered? Tea parties and a round of Partisan Chutes and Ladders?

[William A. Baurle]

Andrew,

To use Cobb's word, the rioters were "inept" because, as Cobb explained in the article, it only served to draw more attention to Milo, which is exactly what Milo wants. They gave him the very thing he desires the most: more exposure, more time in the limelight, an extra few seconds to his allotted 15 minutes.

My personal objection has been outed several times: smashing things and starting fires (arson - a capital crime) puts innocent people in harm's way.

To repeat: there IS a time for violent retaliation to tyranny, but we are not at that point.

Yet.

Can I ask a question? Do you think it's okay for transgender males to use women's bathrooms? Or vice versa?

I read this article, but don't yet know what kind of spin has been put on it, so I'm still a wee tad in the misty area.

Milo said this:

“I see you don’t even read your own student media. He got into the women’s room the way liberals always operate, using the government and the courts to weasel their way where they don’t belong. In this case he made a Title IX complaint. Title IX is a set of rules to protect women on campus effectively. It’s couched in the language of equality, but it’s really about women, which under normal circumstances would be fine, except for how it’s implemented. Now it is used to put men in to women’s bathrooms. I have known some passing trannies in my life. Trannies — you’re not allowed to say that. I’ve known some passing trannies, which is to say transgender people who pass as the gender they would like to be considered.” - [emphasis mine]

He goes on to make a remark that doesn't further his cause in the least. He seems to like taking one step forward and two steps back, and by that I mean: When you need to be plain and serious, do it, and save the chuckles and jokes for another context, another time (ie, in private!).

I am sorry for this UW-Milwaukee student Milo drew worldwide attention to. I hope he will be safe. He's the hapless "pawn outplayed by a dominating queen," to use an Elton John (via Bernie Taupin) quote that's been rattling around in my head for weeks.

Milo seems to be affluent, prideful, boastful, and reckless. He's smart enough to know that he's a major target himself, not just for the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, but for an actual bullet. Maybe he wants to die young and handsome, like James Dean. I'd rather die old and ugly.

[Gregory Palmerino]

Originally Posted by William A. Baurle

Back to Hitler. Bear in mind, Mein Kampf was published in 1925, long before his rise to power. In that book - which I haven't read because I refuse to read it - Hitler wrote, according to historian Ian Kershaw:

When I say "premature", I mean just that. I don't mean, "incorrect", or anything else. Note the word, "exterminated". Trump has not used this kind of language.

Bill,

I'm using your post as a jumping off point. I'm not reading every word in this thread. Therefore...
Of course, we are reading Mein Kampf in the English translation. I would be curious to see if the word "exterminated" is not ex post facto the Holocaust. I think Trump's language about torture is exactly the kind of language used by Hitler because it resonates with an entire nation to brutalize "the other" for the sake of national security. Whipping up a populace to accept such brutality is the process toward "extermination." The most horrifying thing about torture is that somewhere in America your neighbor is going to work ripping the eyes out of another human being. The banality of evil is the most dangerous. Donald Trump couldn't be more banal. Read this article from last August.

Greg

Just adding in to say that I was looking for a credible source that reported on Trump at some point in the campaign talking about bombing some country into oblivion. Am I wrong about that?

[William A. Baurle]

Got the article bookmarked, Gregory.

Will respond in several hours, when I return from work.

[Julie Steiner]

I'm trying to stay out of this thread as much as possible, but I'd like to remind Americans of all political persuasions that the week of February 18-26 is the first recess of the 115th Congress. Your elected representatives are supposed to be holding local town hall meetings and otherwise making themselves available to their constituents, if you have something to say to them on a particular issue.