[William A. Baurle]

Gregory P,

The first thing that jumps out at me in the article is at the very beginning, when the author is saying, not just intimating, but directly stating, that Trump was making "a clear provocation to commit murder, however he and his handlers may try to spin it."

This is exactly the kind of clear exaggeration that almost certainly falls into the defamation category, if you ask me, though I'm not in the legal profession.

Trump said, “Nothing you can do, folks.”

Then his lack of impulse control kicked in:

“Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is,” he added.

- from the article Gregory linked to.

First of all, "Second Amendment people" does not refer only to people who own guns, and it certainly doesn't strictly refer to nutters who would assassinate a presidential candidate! This is hysterical.

I don't own a gun, and in fact can't stand guns, but I firmly believe in the Second Amendment and in the right of a citizen to bear arms for personal protection. This is not to say I don't believe in "gun control". I strongly believe in background checks, and I do think it's far too easy for a person to obtain a firearm, in my gun-happy state especially.

Anyway, I don't think this thread should get bogged down in too many side issues, so that's all I'll say about that, except to reiterate that it's hysterical to take Trump's remarks and spin them into an incitement for assassination.

As for torture. Before I say anything else, yes, Trump certainly is no politician and he sounds more like a high school soccer coach than a US president. Also, I believe I've mentioned how I feel about torture in this thread, or perhaps it was in private with Charlie, I honestly can't remember. I don't advocate torture for any reason. I would argue for tough measures in high pressure situations where information necessary to national security can be gathered. I don't work in that area. I've got it easy, and I don't lay my very life on the line on a daily basis; and far be it for me to dictate what military and government personnel can or can't do in order to keep my tender little behind safe. That being said, I've seen photos and read articles that made my skin crawl, but this kind of thing has been going on for a long time, long before Trump took office.

Back to the comparisons to Hitler. It seems to me that Trump is aggressively interested in minimizing immigration, in sealing the borders, in being isolationist and self-contained as a national interest. Hitler had no compunction when it came to invading other nations and targeting innocents for systematic slaughter (this isn't to say that Trump won't get around to stretching his newfound military muscle - we shall see).

There is a huge difference between wanting to keep people away and wanting to methodically wipe certain races or types of people off the map. Hitler was obsessed with eugenics and what he dreamed of as the perfectibility of the human race. He wanted to rid the world of those pesky Jews, but he also had it in for people with disabilities, deformities, retardation, mental problems, what have you. Too bad he couldn't identify his own sickness in the process. He also didn't care for black people. Remember his shame when Jesse Owens beat his precious blonde supermen in the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. I still like to watch that film just to see the disgruntled and embarrassed look on his silly little face.

But I've gone on too much, and I'm getting a bit exhausted trying to keep up a defense of someone I don't even like.

My main point is that I feel the comparisons to Hitler are premature. Who knows, in a few weeks, a few months, I may be singing a different tune. He does seem to want to get aggressive with foreign policy. But then again, America has been at war for a very long time, long before Trump was anywhere near the political scene.

[Jim Moonan]

This just in...

PRESS CONFERENCE
By Brian Bilston

searching
inside his cranium

trying to find
a brain to rack,

he found the word
"uranium"

and launched
an unclear attack

[Jim Moonan]

Bill: “My main point is that I feel the comparisons to Hitler are premature. Who knows, in a few weeks, a few months, I may be singing a different tune.”

Start warming up you singing voice… This survey/questionnaire (it's not a legit survey) is being circulated to the Trump database:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DBLJ9W3

The comparisons are legitimate. It’s Trump who must answer to the comparisons, to be held accountable for his words and actions.

Go to NYT online and answer survey. They will publish their own results on Sunday.

[Gregory Palmerino]

Originally Posted by William A. Baurle

But I've gone on too much, and I'm getting a bit exhausted trying to keep up a defense of someone I don't even like.

That's something I think most of us can agree on, Bill. In discussions like this I'd like to see Occum's razor come out a bit more. Sounds menacing doesn't it? Just add music and it's more like West Side Story. Ha!

Greg

[Andrew Frisardi]

My feeling is that it is not especially helpful to compare Trump to Hitler. It's more useful to look at what authoritarian governments and fledgling autocracies in general do, which Hitler himself exemplifies and takes to its limit. If we think too much on Hitler specifically, we risk missing what the signs of the present are indicating. For instance, even the period between the World Wars didn't have so many countries with a rapidly rising far right. Then again, they weren't contending with globalization like we are. Etc. etc. There are lots of differences, and authoritarian government in our time has a different look to that of the 1930s. In the long run, because of nukes, environmental crises, and other factors, our version might be less egregious but much more lethal.

[William A. Baurle]

Where's the "Like" button?

Originally Posted by Andrew Frisardi

Trump not only added the 'T' to 'rump' but also the 'T' to 'reason.' Ergo, he thinks with his arse and fills the land with his noxious gases. The question is, will the Senators grow some spine soon and start the inevitable independent investigation

Andrew F,

Reminds me of Dante's character who uses his 'arse' to blow the trumpet. What the hell was his name? I destroyed my poem Contra Inferno (which you critiqued on Metrical, and didn't like), which talked about that section, but I wish like hell I hadn't.

Speaking of trumpets! Maybe Trump is our last president? Final trump?

***

Gregory P,

Occum's

Was that a typo, or am I missing the joke?

[Andrew Frisardi]

Originally Posted by William A. Baurle

I destroyed my poem Contra Inferno (which you critiqued on Metrical, and didn't like), which talked about that section, but I wish like hell I hadn't.

Hey Bill (or do you prefer William?), I didn’t mean to trash that poem outright. You should resuscitate it.

Reminds me of Dante's character who uses his 'arse' to blow the trumpet. What the hell was his name?

Barbariccia, "Curly Beard," and their boss's name is Malacoda, "Evil Tail," or "Evil Rump" in this case.

The comparison is apt. A defining feature of Dante’s hell is that it has lost "il ben de l’intelletto," the good of the intellect. The Inferno is a pig-pile of social chaos, a city that has lost its way because people have ditched the understanding they might measure their speech and actions by.

The Administration’s trashing of the media is a way to crush independent thought--the good of the intellect. So is their budget proposal’s plan to cut the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, AmeriCorps, and the National Endowments for the Arts and the Humanities.

Trump is the anti-intellectual's anti-intellectual.

Like William C. Williams’s introduction to Ginsberg’s Howl says, "Hold back the edges of your gowns, Ladies, we are going through hell."

[William A. Baurle]

Thanks, Andrew.

You can call me Bill. There used to be a slew of Bills about, Lantry, Carpenter, and others. Now there are less Bills.

Thanks, yes, that's the guy!

Alas, I cannot resuscitate the poem since I deleted it from my blog, and also from my personal files, and there is no hard copy. The poem has vanished into the ether. It was posted on Metrical, perhaps a year or so ago, in two versions, but I imagine that when they prune those forums, they prune into oblivion. ?

It wasn't your critique that made me destroy the poem, but my fear that I was treading on sacred ground.

Ah, well.

Evil Rump. That will go into a poem of mine soon.

[Douglas G. Brown]

Originally Posted by William A. Baurle

Thanks, Andrew.

Evil Rump. That will go into a poem of mine soon.

And, thanks to Andrew, I'll try cooking up something that begins with
"He is the very model of an anti-intellectual".

Wiliam, try searching the data base for all your past posts, and you may find your lost poem. Or, do a search using a distinctive keyword that you used in it. Somehow, some pretty old stuff escapes the pruning process.

[Nigel Mace]

Ah, Douglas, I smell G&S. Should cook beautifully!