[Nigel Mace]

Thanks for the "honest", John. The poverty is what we will be leaving. As Kanga would have it, "We'll see."

[Andrew Mandelbaum]

Originally Posted by Ann Drysdale

I freely confess I do not have the political vocabulary or the fiscal nous to discuss this on what many would consider a proper level. I am not even fully clear about Leftliness or Rightitude in this context. I am reduced to my own linguistic devices. I have all my life espoused causes that I truly believed would benefit humanity and the planet we inhabit. I worked in the sixties for the PPF, supporting Greenpeace and the CND. Pretty well everything that I believe in is about to be trampled by a regime whose criteria for excellence I simply do not understand.

You talk on the only level that matters, Ann. All the old categories are nonsense in the face of the age of consequences that is being ushered in by a thirst for criteria that is, in the end, incomprehensible because it ultimately acts against the interests of its shepherds as well. Your "linguistic devices" are a breathable air after the smoke. Thanks.

[Jim Moonan]

Thanks Ann for putting things into perspective and speaking from the one place we so desperately need to hear from -- the conscience.

[John Whitworth]

Ah Nigel. Having your cake and eating it. Well, why not? Whence will this wealth spring, if I may ask. From the blood, sweat and tears of the Scottish people? From the largesse of the European Union? From England perhaps?

[Nigel Mace]

We'll make our own way well enough in Europe, John. Meanwhile, I suggest you read and reflect on Martin Wolf in today's FT. Sobering stuff for 'South Britain'.

[Quincy Lehr]

Quoth Charlie:

I don't have a rudimentary grasp of any of the political categories that Andrew espouses. He throws out words like racist, misogynist, low brow, Cracker and others because he is completely indoctrinated and a complete waste of time to speak with because he won't hear of it.

Words directed at Andrew but a pretty good indication of why I make the point of not taking Mr. Southerland too seriously. Charlie can run to the moderators with every case of mild butt-hurt (which rather casts a pall on claims of anti-authoritarianism, by the way), but a blatant admission that one neither knows nor cares where someone is coming from tends not to be conducive to civilized discourse. Sometimes that's fine. I doubt Charlie and Andrew will convince each other of very much. But if one is interested in a flame war (which is really the only way to go from Charlie's admission--he doesn't know what communism, socialism, and anarchism, are, but he knows he doesn't like 'em, by golly), it's probably best to be open about it.

[John Whitworth]

Oh dear, Nigel. They won't let you into Europe, haven't you heard? As for the FT, nobody believes the FT.

[Aaron Poochigian]

Charlie, thanks for pointing out "The Pennsylvania Review". My God, I never stopped to wonder where [He Who Must Not Be Named--Edited by Julie Steiner] and Joseph Salemi had gotten off to. The Journal's web page is like a game: how many Salemi poems can be featured on one web page (plus an interview)?

Perhaps he will become Poet Laureate.

[Charlie Southerland]

Hey Quincy, I didn't run to the moderators. Several people have, but I haven't. Unlike some here, I'm for free speech. So is Trump.

[Nigel Mace]

"I refer my disgruntled friend to the answers I gave earlier."
In a phrase - we are staying while you are 'Brexiting'.
Perhaps your memories of Edinburgh extend to that modest building with three Palladian palace fronts, on George IV, the Royal Mile and facing St Giles, recently acquired by the French government for their... 'consulate' - and clearly actually for their coming Embassy. We are becoming even better friends with our oldest allies - among the very countries your lot are busy p***ing off.
Before you go on cheering for those who are doing all this, I'd read the FT - just a bit, John. As Obama just said at Rutgers, "In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue. It's not cool not to know what you're talking about. That's not 'keeping it real' or 'telling it like it is'; that's not 'challenging political correctness'; that's just not knowing what you're talking about."

At least that quote gets us back to where this thread is supposed to be going. The start of his neat summation of why Trump and his 'team' are a disaster, starting with their cult of ignorance and their contempt for the truth - and contrasting that with the vast potential of a new generation of graduates. Like the miserabilist Unionists/Brexiteers and would-be Empire revivalists here, the Trumpers have no vision for a future that is other than the exhumation of the corpses of mythic pasts. Along with all their other vices, they are simply rotten historians - and that's a failing with very high charges.