[Janet Kenny]

My parody was written quickly but more or less reproduces the way I stress the original. I am fascinated by the way it was totally ignored, and that prompted my remark under Nyctom's Grahn thread, about females being sidelined as a matter of course.
I do sincerely believe that the poem is stressed in an English way, rather than American. I suspect that that fact leads Americans to intellectualise where an English/English speaker merely feels and speaks. If I have the technology I'd be happy to send a sound file. I'm not sure that I can though.
Janet

[Mark Granier]

Well, as far as I know, ballad measure is also known as ballad meter or ballad stanza.

But Alan, I can see where you're coming from; you can tweak it that way if you wish, and I do believe it's closer to ballad measure than trimeter. Two big BUTS however.

1. Some of the lines (for me) will just not stretch to 4 beats without sounding downright odd. Line 1 for example, as a 4-stress, could only be "IS there ANybody THERE said the TRAveller" which makes it sound much too jaunty. Similarly with lines 9 ("But" or "to" would have to be stressed) and 21 ("And"???).

2. You cannot have it both ways. If you start attending to secondary stresses the poem moves farther from ballad measure, since some of the lines become pentameters (eg.11: GREY EYES and 17: DARK STAIR) which, to me, makes more sense, tweaks more easily and sounds much better.

[Janet Kenny]

As I read "The Listeners"


'Is there anybody there?' said the Traveller,(3)
Knocking on the moonlit door; (3)
And his horse in the silence champed the grasses(3)
Of the forest's ferny floor: (3)
And a bird flew up out of the turret,(3)
Above the Traveller's head (3)
And he smote upon the door again a second time; (4--3 if gabbled)
'Is there anybody there?' he said. (3)
But no one descended to the Traveller; (3)
No head from the leaf-fringed sill (3)
Leaned over and looked into his grey eyes,(3--could be 4 to balance 7)
Where he stood perplexed and still.(3)
But only a host of phantom listeners (3)
That dwelt in the lone house then (3)
Stood listening in the quiet of the moonlight (3)
To that voice from the world of men: (3)
Stood thronging the faint moonbeams on the dark stair, (3--or 4 to balance)
That goes down to the empty hall, (3)
Hearkening in an air stirred and shaken (3)
By the lonely Traveller's call. (3)
And he felt in his heart their strangeness, (3)
Their stillness answering his cry, (3)
While his horse moved, cropping the dark turf, (3--or 4--both correct IMO)
'Neath the starred and leafy sky; (3)
For he suddenly smote on the door, even (4)
Louder, and lifted his head:- (3)
'Tell them I came, and no one answered, (3)
That I kept my word,' he said. (3)
Never the least stir made the listeners, (3)
Though every word he spake (3)
Fell echoing through the shadowiness of the still house (4)
From the one man left awake: (3)
Ay, they heard his foot upon the stirrup, (3)
And the sound of iron on stone, (3)
And how the silence surged softly backward, (3)
When the plunging hoofs were gone. (3)

PS:
I can see how Mark could read this as dimeter by rocking from start to end of each line but I think the trimeter accommodates the nuances better and who the hell cares which pattern it fits? The poem asserts a beat of its own which is simple and clear. I believe a child would not stumble on it. The drama dictates the meter.
Janet



[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited August 25, 2005).]

[Mark Granier]

The poem asserts a beat of its own which is simple and clear. I believe a child would not stumble on it.

I'm with you on the first part Janet, I believe the poem asserts its own beat (which may be clear though I am not so certain it is simple). Re. a child's reading, it depends on the child. Many children tend to recite poems rather mechanically; I certainly did as a child, up to the age of 13 or 14 probably, when I suddenly discovered the dramatic power of imagery.

I agree that many of the lines are 3-stress, but not that many. Again, I really do think the third line loses a deal of dramatic energy (not to mention music) if "champed" is flattened in a tri- or tetrasyllabic rush to get to GRAsses. That seems simple and clear enough to me anyway.

But as you say Janet, who the hell cares? The Listeners is marvellously atmospheric, and I've enjoyed rereading it (almost have it by heart now).

[Janet Kenny]

Mark,
The Irish share with Americans the habit of sounding many syllables which are silent, or unstressed to the point of being almost swallowed, in English/English. An exaggerated example is "fillums=films"--OK--but you know what I mean


'is there ANybody THERE?' said the TRAveller,(3)


Only way I can read that line.
Janet



[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited August 25, 2005).]

[Mark Granier]

Re. the first line Janet, I couldn't agree more.

[Janet Kenny]

Mark G (in case Mark A returns)
I'm glad. That proves we're sane--I think?

I hope you forgave my Irish joke.

I was raised in a country where my name was Jenet and now live in a country called Straya. In between I lived in a country where they said not to worry about my country of origin since it didn't "show". We all have our burdens.

One adjusts.
Janet

[Mark Granier]

The Irish share with Americans the habit of sounding many syllables which are silent, or unstressed to the point of being almost swallowed, in English/English. An exaggerated example is "fillums=films"

Not this Irishman, as far as poetry is concerned anyway; speech is another matter. But your example is exaggerated, as you say. We (the Dubs I know) only talk in that stage-Irish manner when sending ourselves up, which we do from time to time. When reading a poem I let my ear be informed by its music/rhythm/drama/atmosphere/ etc. I think I would tend to drop rather than add syllables, though I do like pronouncing my Rs. My own accent is fairly neutral; though English tend to know where I'm from, Irish have often mistaken me for a Brit (or a "West Brit").

[Mark Granier]

I hope you forgave my Irish joke.

Naturally. No need to ask. And if my skin were that thin I'd never survive an Irish winter (or summer for that matter).

[Janet Kenny]

Mark,
I've been to Dublin and have known many Irish whose English is charming but recognisably from Ireland. I was joking--although as you know there are parts of England where language is stressed very differently, as there are parts of America likewise. I realise that it is not uniform. I worked in Northern Ireland, Wales and Devon and Teeside and Tyneside and environs in between as well as yer home counties. On my first night in London I attended a French horn recital in the V & A and behind me I heard a row of Frafflies speaking for the first time in my life. It was all I could do not to laugh out loud. I lived and worked in London for almost a decade so I'm pretty used to the sounds.
Janet