[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by John Riley

The articles are asking what has the university done to poetry and music? What was lost when literary writing means you do a masters degree and hopefully land a job turning out more poets? How much does it effect or diminish the chances of something new? I know many people here want something old, but would the romantic movement have started at Eastern Carolina University or Tiny College America? People here may make their living in that system. That is what you’re supposed to do. To ask what is lost by turning any art into an academic field is the question a d it’s a legitimate one.

Leonard Cohen strikes me as one of few modern poets not tied into academia, but who found financial success. And not having to answer to anybody, his writing is some of the most interesting I've read.

I'd think that what you can say and how you can say it is definitely going to be limited by a salary.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

That's where we differ. I don't think the term "poet" is boastful. If a person lives a life in which writing poetry is a major theme, that person is a poet. Maybe a bad poet, maybe a good one, but a poet either way. It's not a title conferred upon a person. It's a description of them, a fact about them. How can we know the dancer from the dance?

I don't think it's necessarily boastful, or has to be, but it can definitely be construed that way, and to me that's the problem.

I've mostly told other artistic people because they get it, but even then it's been a one-off 'I do this', not shouting to the roof tops.

To others poetry can be a political statement - 'I'm cultured, smarter, better'. Some might see it as a threat, or if it's advertised too much, pretentious.

[Rick Mullin]

Somebody mentions Wallace Stevens up there. Can anybody name a 20th century Connecticut insurance executive or New Jersey ob-gyn who wasn't, moreover, a poet? I wouldn't call Stevens or Williams professional poets any more than I'd call Eliot, Moore, or Pound professionals. The poetry part is on another level. Mostly on Sundays.

[Jim Moonan]

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I do believe there are things we are predisposed to be. As someone said early on in the thread, quoting Robert Frost, "Being a poet is a condition, not a profession."

I have always been and always will be a poet. I never say I am a poet when asked "What do you do?". I assume what they mean is "What do you do to make a living?" Now, if they said "name something that you could not live without", that's a different question.

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[Roger Slater]

Originally Posted by Nick McRae

I don't think it's necessarily boastful, or has to be, but it can definitely be construed that way, and to me that's the problem.

I've mostly told other artistic people because they get it, but even then it's been a one-off 'I do this', not shouting to the roof tops.

To others poetry can be a political statement - 'I'm cultured, smarter, better'. Some might see it as a threat, or if it's advertised too much, pretentious.

It can be construed as boastful to say "I'm a doctor" as well, but that doesn't mean doctors shouldn't tell you they're doctors.

In my experience, most poets don't feel that being a poet is anything to boast about. I hate to break it to you, but most non-poets are not particularly impressed by someone being a poet. In fact, a lot of non-poets will take a person less seriously if they say they are a poet. To say you are a poet these days is more of a confession than a boast.

[John Riley]

I seldom tell people I’m a poet because it makes them uncomfortable. It doesn’t matter if I say I write poetry or that I’m a poet.

[Orwn Acra]

When someone asks I say that I write poetry, not that I am a poet. Unless I am in the Arab world, in which case I call myself a poet, because it does have an elevated status there. My avoidance is because I don't think I write the sort of poetry that comes to mind when one thinks of a poet.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

It can be construed as boastful to say "I'm a doctor" as well, but that doesn't mean doctors shouldn't tell you they're doctors.

In my experience, most poets don't feel that being a poet is anything to boast about. I hate to break it to you, but most non-poets are not particularly impressed by someone being a poet. In fact, a lot of non-poets will take a person less seriously if they say they are a poet. To say you are a poet these days is more of a confession than a boast.

That's along the lines of what I mean. The impression many people have of poetry is that it's full of high-minded, elitists. So, to some, advertising yourself as a poet implies you want to be a part of that group. An air of arrogance and pretention can come across.

It's like going out of your way to advertise a Mathematics PhD. It's cool if you have one, to those who care, but not cool to go out of your way to make it be known.

In my experience, quite a few people are impressed by writing skill, but they'll roll their eyes if you try to force it on them.

[Roger Slater]

I said nothing about "forcing" it on anyone. In fact, I have no idea what you mean by that. I don't go out of my way to collar everyone I meet and tell them I'm a poet, nor do I actively try to bring it up in conversation. But if someone asks me if I'm a poet, it would be dishonest of me to say that I'm not, given that I have spent decades of my life writing and publishing poems, and I'm about to publish a book that dares to claim it has poems inside. Do you think I should I demur and say, "No, I am a writer of poems, but I'm not actually a poet"? Or is that also too immodest, since who am I to say that what I've written are "poems" in the exalted sense you insist upon?

You're a poet, too. Own it.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Roger Slater

I said nothing about "forcing" it on anyone. In fact, I have no idea what you mean by that. I don't go out of my way to collar everyone I meet and tell them I'm a poet, nor do I actively try to bring it up in conversation. But if someone asks me if I'm a poet, it would be dishonest of me to say that I'm not, given that I have spent decades of my life writing and publishing poems, and I'm about to publish a book that dares to claim it has poems inside. Do you think I should I demur and say, "No, I am a writer of poems, but I'm not actually a poet"? Or is that also too immodest, since who am I to say that what I've written are "poems" in the exalted sense you insist upon?

You're a poet, too. Own it.

Right, I'm not arguing with your point, just adding to the conversation. If someone asks me if I write poetry, sure, totally normal to tell them.

My addition (not argument) is that like any other vocation, it's not really normal to advertise stuff like poetry to the general public, or people you don't know well. Unless you're specifically trying to sell poetry to an already existing audience. So this is likely why many keep some level of secrecy, in the same way a doctor wouldn't go around introducing themselves as a doctor.

But FWIW, I don't think poetry is as disrepected as you imagine. I've run into plenty of people who were impressed. But like any other vocation or occupation, opinions will vary.

In North America I think we can be a bit anti-intellectual, as opposed to cultures in Europe. Which likely speaks to why Cohen was so successful over there, but had a hard time breaking into the U.S..