[Lee Gurga]

Kathy, delighted we were able to give you a stimulating surprise! Thanks for sharing the haiku. (By the way, "haiku " is both singular and plural.) They give me an opportunity to comment on several issues related to haiku composition. I hope you find them of interest. And even more I hope you won't mind my using your poems to discuss them.

I will begin this by sharing the secret of writing a fine haiku. Interested? Here's the secret: write 100 bad haiku! You may think I am being glib, but the fact is that it is very difficult to write an excellent haiku. And this is not only a problem for Westerners. The Japanese say that even for a haiku master, only one in ten is excellent. With this perspective, let’s go on to see what we can learn from your haiku.

In an earlier post, in which we discussed some haiku of Janet Kenny’s, I mentioned that what seemed to be the context of the poem was presented in the third line. This is a common problem for those who are first trying their hands at haiku. Sort of “saving up” a surprise to present in the third line. A related problem is that of making the third line a “conclusion” or “title” to the poem. In other words, rather than presenting two images, haiku like this present one image and the poet's interpretation of the image. If your haiku can be rewritten like this:

"bachelor"

bullfrog croaks
never gets answer

it likely suffers from this affliction. In general, haiku don’t have a “point” to make. Rather, they offer to share a meaningful intuition with ther reader by artfully presenting images in such a way that the reader can become a “co-creator” of the experience.

Your haiku also bring to mind another pitfall of writing haiku, what has been referred to as “Tontoism” after the Lone Ranger's faithful companion. It is considered Tontoism when one unnaturally omits articles from the haiku. (In my mind “never gets answer” and “on ground in circle” are both examples of this.) I don’t think anyone would arbitrarily leave out articles when writing a sonnet; there is no reason to do so when writing a haiku, either.

Another important issue of haiku is what I will refer to as “believability.” When something is being presented as a natural scene, is it plausible or not? (Of course, this issue takes on a completely different aspect when one is talking about surreal haiku or haiku that rely on syntactic disjunction to jar the reader.) I don’t pretend to be an expert on luna moths, but when I read the luna moth haiku, I suspect it is based on fancy rather than on what luna moths actually do. (If I am wrong about this, give me both barrels! Blam! Blam!) Even if I am wrong about this particular poem, and please forgive me if I am, the issue still remains important for poets writing haiku. The best haiku are about WHAT IS rather than on the poet's fancy or what things are like or might seem like. (This is the reason overtly figurative language is generally avoided in haiku.) Of course, there are execeptions, and “what is truth” is not a trivial issue. In fact, it may well be the most important. Having read that last sentence, you might suspect another lecture is coming on. I will try to restrain myself and just mention another perspective from which to look at this issue: in one schema, the development of the haiku poet’s sensibilities is seen as moving on a continuum from “sketches from life” to “selective realism” to “poetic truth.” Poetic truth, of course, is not the same as literal truth. (If you are interested in hearing more about this, let me know and I won't have to feel guilty about giving another lecture.)

See what you have done, Kathy? I hope you won’t think that I am being too hard on you and I hope you will not be discouraged from sharing more of your haiku with us!

Lee

[Lee Gurga]

Yes, ChristyElizabeth, I think you are correct in saying the subjectivity of meaning (especially) and humor (also) are important issues to consider. (In fact, I once shared a senryu with someone and they never spoke to me again! Some sense of humor!)

I think this problem of subjectivity, of how much is enough, not enough, or too much is a problem that plagues haiku particularly because of its brevity. No room to explain oneself, so if you have left out something crucial, the reader just won’t “get it.” This problem is so important that I wouldn’t consider submitting a poem until I have had a knowledgeable friend critique it. Sometimes the most difficult thing is to distinguish what is essential from what is incidental—especially when the incidental seems more interesting!

I have a few comments on the poems, if you will. The first seems a bit overburdened with figurative imagery. Beyond this, the mood of the imagery seems to conflict with the mood of the poem. “Frosting” and “cakes” don’t seem to convey the mood of frustration implied by “screaming.” Now you may intend that they do so, and that is fine. But if you do, why not let the natural scene speak for itself? Are “frosting” and “cake” more eloquent than the beauty of winter landscape itself? And, keeping in mind the message of the third line, is it possible to make the reader scream him or herself without overtly saying so? To resolve these issues in a poem that allows the reader to share the discovery of the feeling of this particular winter day is to be on the road to successful haiku.

frosting on the trees
cakes of snow on my mailbox
I scream for warm days

This second poem is more successful as a haiku. It is an example of the “sketch from life” haiku mentioned in the previous post.

dogs bay at the moon
a bright thing in a dark sky
far-off stars twinkle

This third, I believe, is the most successful of the three. I think it has a real insight to share, though I am not entirely sure I agree with it. The most important question is, do you?

tinder for a poem
-when the real logs catch fire-
usually burns up

I am sure that is more than you wanted to hear—sorry to be so long-winded!

Lee

[nyctom]

Thwo new:


three sunny days:
buds blossom;
three drops of rain:
umbrellas


*


Bird
shit on
NO TRESSPASSING


***

And two rewrites:


untouchable coal
smoldering in your red shirt--
grey will hem you in!


*


And because some things work better in other forms (!):


rites of rain

heavy
with the weight
of rain
a leaf uncups
drops


OK. I'll stop now. You've been very inspiring. Thank you!

Tom

[This message has been edited by nyctom (edited May 05, 2004).]

[ChristyElizabeth]

Thank you so much for the insights, Lee. That was very helpful. (And I sure don't think of you as long-winded! Most writers that I know never get tired of these kind of discussions.)

On the first one - perhaps if I changed that last line back to how I originally had it - but like you said, it does seem a little busy.

frosting on the trees
cakes of snow on my mailbox
ice cream for warm days

The second one about the dogs baying at the moon - I liked for the insinuation of flashiness get attention.

As far as whether I believe the last one--well, I have learned through writing and rewriting that I sometimes have to let my pet lines go. (But I do save them!)

A valuable thing I've picked up from you is that the line doesn't need to be a summing up, or a value judgement. I can't always pinpoint why I favor some haiku over others but that may be why.

Again, thank you for your time and expertise. I look forward to reading more!

Christy

[Kathy Gay]

Tontoism? ahh so, Kimosubbie, I see! LOL....Lee, you are a delight and I thank you for your candor and for sharing your wealth of information on how to write haiku (see? I'm learning already...)

With regard to the luna moths...BLAM BLAM! That was a real life observation. I walked up on a perfect pale yellow circle of them in my driveway. An odd thing to see. I dont know why they do that.

I am, of course, interested in anything you are willing to share about how to write haiku. I adore them even if I find them extremely hard to accomplish. This week end, I will have more time to settle in and read this topic thoroughly. Then I'll buckle down and try to to write a good one. Gee, only 78 bad haiku to go! No sweat! ha!

Best wishes and many thanks for your effort here,

Kathy

P.S. I'm left wondering about my concubine one. Was it too bad for words? Offensive? Inappropriate subject matter for haiku? Speaking of that, I might as well post another that got some flak, because of its religious overtones that I was told does not go with haiku...its the one (obviously) about the passion flower. What is your take on that? Might as well throw in a couple more. Feel free to use them as fodder for lessons. I don't mind looking like a doofus...really. *wink*

Kathy

early morning rain
washes purple pansy's face-
ready for the sun!
~
finches flit from oak
to huckleberry bushes
quick morning kisses

passion flower
hangs on wooden trellis
crucified
~~~

75 to go...



[This message has been edited by Kathy Gay (edited May 05, 2004).]

[VictoriaGaile]

I've attempted very few of these (and always in the novice's 5/7/5 form), but this one is my favorite:

puddle of shadow
beneath the forsythia --
two green eyes. black cat!


I'm curious, Lee, whether you would consider this one to exhibit the "sin of context" you mentioned earlier, since presumably I could have titled the thing "black cat". But to my mind, that would be a different poem, and would not (as I hope this one does) recreate the startled joy of discovery that that wasn't just a shadow, after all.

Thank you,
Victoria

[Renate]

As far as I can remember these are the first haiku I've attempted writing. In the first one I wonder if the
words "ignite" and "shower" are appropriate to the form,
or is this case of "overburdening imagery"?


Red blooms ignite
the Bottle Brush tree—a shower
of Rainbow Lorikeets.

The Autumn school-term
begins—four hundred
children chattering.

thank you,
Renate

[Lee Gurga]

Tom,

Thanks for sharing the new poems—some interesting poems here. “Three sunny days” is interesting and fun. “Bird” is of course, simple irony. To tell you the truth, I would have preferred it to have been a BUSH/CHENEY sign. To tell you the truth, I haven’t got any idea what you are trying to get at with the “untouchable coal” piece—probably my failure.

As you might suspect, the perception involved in “rites of rain” is something many have experienced over the years, and falls in the category of a successful “sketch of life” (mentioned in an earlier post) whatever form you put it in.

Speaking of “other forms” for the past little while I have been writing in my own haiku in the actual form the Japanese use: Not 5-7-5 in three lines, but in a vertical line with one word to a line.

Lee

[Lee Gurga]

Christy,

Well, my thoughts—I certainly wouldn’t put them in the realm of insights--but I am delighted to have been or some service. Yes, as you observed, the new version of the first poem is still a bit busy. Please notice that the third line is still an interpretation of sorts. In the best haiku, the poet allow things to speak for themselves. That is not to say that mental perceptions are not a part of haiku. If you look at the poems I posted on the “haiku form?” thread last night, you will see lots of mental perceptions. This partly results from haiku’s origins in a Buddhist culture in which the mind is simply one of the senses and thus doesn’t face the temptation to “rule” the other senses.

Yes, it is always difficult to give up our pet lines, as you describe them, no easier for me than it is for you! We are all sinners! Lord, have mercy!

Not only does the third line not need to be a summing up or value judgment, you would be well-served to assume it should NEVER be that.

Lee

[Lee Gurga]

Kathy,

Well, you have exposed me as a lepidopterous loser! But thanks much for clearing my sinuses with your Remmington! Kidding aside, I have never seen more than one luna at a time—it must have been a glorious sight! I hope you can do something really fine with it.

Yes, isn’t Tontoism a great term? It is also been put that a haiku is a poem, not a telegram.

Haiku are hard to accomplish, and accomplished haiku are rare. Even the esteemed Bashô may only have written half a dozen truly great haiku. (I think Bashô said you were a great haiku poet if you have written three or four, but don’t quote me on the exact number.) Only 75 bad ones to go? You are almost there! If you could see some of the bad stuff I have written—and had published—you would, I believe, not be concerned at all about your progress. Speaking of publishing, to me one of the advantages of print publication is that with sufficient effort you can locate and burn all the copies of a book or magazine, but with the Internet, poems can attain eternal life . . . whether you want them to or not!

Concubine: to tell you the truth, it is not a matter of bad or offensive. I just didn’t get it. That said, I will mention that it is best to avoid trying to “tell a story” in three lines in your haiku. As you might expect,we have an expression for that, too: “mini-series haiku.”

Religious overtones are no problem. In Japanese, one of the six (or is it seven, I forget) major categories of seasonal words is called “Gods and Buddhas.”

Re:

early morning rain
washes purple pansy's face-
ready for the sun!

Here is a haiku on the same subject but with an enormous difference in approach. Lighter, more true to life, not painting a picture but taking our hand so we can come along and share the fun:

pansies we smile back
Charlies Trumbull

finches flit from oak
to huckleberry bushes
quick morning kisses

I think this is the best of yours I have read so far. Well done!

passion flower
hangs on wooden trellis
crucified

As I said, I don’t think the subject matter is a problem here. (But look at the tontoism! Help!) Perhaps the too obvious connection of “passion?” Also, please note that it is only one image, with the third line a conclusion, really. Compare this with the following two haiku on Christian subjects by contemporary master Akito Arima (in translation):

a cherry:
Mary coaxes it
from Joseph

Notice Akito has taken the fruit from the garden of eden and replaced it with one with considerable erotic charge. Notice also that he has reversed the direction of the fruit. Something new to consider about the Holy Family!
Another:

theologians:
spitting watermelon seeds
in unison

See what I mean? And one more by a western writer with a totally different mood:

forgotten for today
by the one true god
autumn mosquito Steven LeRoy

Not so obvious: this is a 9-11 haiku.

Blah, blah, blah . . . enough for now!

Lee