[Jane Holland]

John W., could I just correct you on something? You say Mslexia doesn't pay for poetry, but that is not the case. They certainly do pay; I have been in the magazine on a number of occasions and received my cheque without any problems. However, it may well be that they wouldn't pay YOU. Especially after noting your intention to submit work under a female pseudonym to a women-only magazine.

On behalf of myself and Annie Finch, who is not available at the moment, many thanks to everyone here for wishing us good luck with our new website, Poetic Justice. It's wonderful to see such support, especially from male members of the poetic community.

I'm particularly pleased by your response, considering our immediate disadvantages as women - such as those evinced by E. Shaun Russell with his insightful comment that 'women are less interested in seeing their work in print than men,' and Mark Allinson, whose well-judged observation that 'The great fact of the matter is that men - for profound emotional and psychological reasons - TEND to be more driven to create THINGS (of all types) than women' really hit the nail on the head for me. Indeed, this last remark reminded me of my six year old twin boys, who TEND to like nothing better than creating CHAOS, while their older sister is trying to read.

On balance, judging from the response so far on this forum alone, I feel thoroughly justified in my decision to accept Annie Finch's invitation to join her in this venture. There was a time when few men would have felt comfortable making such lazily fatuous and sexist remarks in public, but that day has passed, largely due to a generation of women who thought - wrongly, as it happens - that the battle for equality had been won, that we could all safely put on our bras again and 'have it all'.

That mistaken assumption has gradually led to the current situation where feminism - the F-word - is denigrated high and low by both sexes (largely because of ludicrous media depictions of feminists as hairy, motorcycle-riding lesbians who hate men) while unreconstructed idiots continue to rant openly about how women are neither ambitious nor creative and should accept that having a family means an end to their leisure time unless they happen to be Superwoman or are well-heeled enough to afford domestic help - in which case they apparently prove the point that women should stop whining that their husbands never help with the kids or the housework, because it is perfectly possible to do EVERYTHING, and still have time to write a dozen new poems and post them off to that benign male editor who's just desperate for more women to send him work.

I do hope some of the ladies here will join Poetic Justice. We're hoping to set up a supportive Knit Yourself a Poem self-help group, which should be fun! First I have to go and tackle a mound of washing ...

Hey Jane, great to see you here! Your Poets on Fire is an excellent forum for poets.

Bill, the Iced Vo-Vos reference was to a classic from the very popular Australian sport of Teacher-Bashing, the basic premise of which is that teachers, especially English teachers -- of whom in New South Wales at least, the big majority are women -- are responsible for all of Society's ills. A NSW Minister for Education once remarked that the greatest issue that teachers had to face in their daily professional lives was whether to have Scotch Fingers or Iced Vo-Vos with their morning tea.

Mark quite often defines any problematic issue in terms of the role of English teachers in causing the problem. Mark holds the rank of Kyuudan in Teacher-Bashing.

I unequivocally support the Poetic Justice Forum.

[Jane Holland]

Hi Paul ... ditto.

My husband is an English teacher. I blame him for everything too.

My husband is an English teacher. I blame him for everything too.

Quite right, too. We are always on the lookout for new ways to destroy Western Civilisation.

[peter richards]

I'm a Norwegian teacher. Can I help?

Help dunk the Iced Vo-Vo, Peter, or help destroy Western Civilisation?

[Carol Trese]

Most writers on Eratosphere are intelligent and thoughtfully engaging, but I want to remind people that if certain posters offend you, you can block their posts:
http://www.ablemuse.com/erato/faq.ph...lesome_us ers

Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.

What if I see something offensive?

You will find 'Report' links in many places throughout the board. These links allow you to alert the board staff to anything which you find to be offensive, objectionable or illegal.

In support of the Poetic Justice Discussion, please log on at http://z3.invisionfree.com/Poetic_Ju...ex.php?act=idx.

[peter richards]

Originally Posted by Paul Stevens

Help dunk the Iced Vo-Vo, Peter, or help destroy Western Civilisation?

In for a penny, in for a euro... I'll just report for duty...

[Shaun J. Russell]

Originally Posted by Jane Holland

Men like the blustering chauvinists on Eratosphere would love it if we rolled onto our backs and lapped up their explanations like good little girls. Unfortunately for them, most of us have got better sense.

It's a complicated situation, and nothing that punitiary castration would solve, alas. Though it's fun to consider it as an option.

What in the world is that all about?

I don't think anyone here -- male or female -- has said anything that warrants something so vitriolic.

As with all discussions, you can interpret it whatever way you want, but I am appalled at the sheer insolence of the above allegations. The supposed gender gap is largely wrought by those who want there to be a gender gap. I am a proponent of true equality between both sexes and all races...and when I say "equality" I mean equality. Gender should not be a factor in what makes a great poem great, and you can call Eratosphere a lot of things, but I don't think "chauvinistic" is one of them. Not in any prevailing sense, at least.

I looked at your forum, expecting to see something positive and proactive, but all that's there is negative sniping against men. It's deeply disheartening, and has made what seemed like a good, fruitful discussion into a shallow pastiche. It screams of agenda.

[Jane Holland]

Oh Shaun, I was just taking a leaf out of your own masterly book, and making a 'tongue in cheek' comment - as you did below. How could you have misread me so badly? And quoted from the new Poetic Justice forum without adding either my 'Snip, snip' or my cute winking icon, which so clearly indicate the tongue-in-cheekness of it all.

Originally Posted by EST

Janice -- I agree that there's a difference between reading Erato for fifteen minutes and polishing a poem, but I hope you know I wrote that particular sentence tongue-in-cheek.

But I have to admit to being confused about your other remarks above, especially referring to my 'allegations'. Which allegations did I make? Are you sure you're using the right word? I wouldn't want another misunderstanding to occur. Especially when we've been getting along so nicely.