[Catherine Chandler]

I'm all for "embracing the paradox".

[Rick Mullin]

Sprawl occurs in art. The fifteenth to twenty-first
lines in a sonnet, for example. And in certain paintings.
~Les Murray

[Alex Pepple]

I have to remind everyone that Eratosphere rules (and sanctions) against ad hominem posts still apply to all the bake-off comments and discussions. This is especially so in this thread where some of the comments can be considered ad hominem attacks -- and you know who you are! Your arguments should address the topic of the post under discussion, without riling it with your opinions about the character of the poster!

There's no reason why you can't express a difference of opinion in a civil manner, and skip all the obnoxious bits!

...Alex

[Spindleshanks]

Thanks Alex. Well said.

[Tim Murphy]

I've published about 100 sonnets, roughly 12.5 percent of my output, so I am no inveterate sonneteer. I'm just tired of Petrarchan and Shakespearean sonnets. Most of my sonnets are nonce, many of them heterometrical. All have fourteen lines and a turn. "Sing a new song to the Lord."

[Darius Degher]

Great to be here as a new member of this community! Thanks for having me.

I sympathize with the judges, who must necessarily be wrestling with the many possible definitions of “sonnet” in trying to decide A) whether a more expansive poem still is one and B) whether a strictly traditional sonnet is contemporary enough to carry the values of our age, and whether that matters or not.

What I find most interesting is that we each have our own definition of what a contemporary sonnet is. I’m guessing that only the most traditional among us would argue for holding to the strictest definition of what a sonnet is (if it were even possible to settle on just one of the many historical permutations). That said, we each have our own ideas as to which of the “traditional” elements of sonnet-ness are most important, which are deal-breakers and which are negotiable. For me, some are elemental, and I’m not willing to lose them. These include: regular, recurring meter, the presence of a volta that actually does something, and that the poem consists of fourteen lines. Other things, especially in my own sonnets, I have a more expansive view of, such as subject matter and rhyme scheme.

[Roger Slater]

Julie's mini-manifesto says "And whether the poet follows the standard recipes for rhyme and meter and placement of the volta, or rebels against them, the audience's familiarity with the sonnet tradition must somehow inform and improve our experience of the poem."

I know it carries no official weight, but it seems to me it does reflect the consensus around here, and it appeared in the initial announcement thread for the contest and did not provoke any dissent. Personally, I find it to be an excellent formulation that nicely balances the claims of tradition and the claims of innovation.

[R.A. Briggs]

Originally Posted by Catherine Chandler

I'm all for "embracing the paradox".

Excellent! (I think that's an absurd philosophical position, but I like absurd philosophical positions.)

[Michael Cantor]

Of course it's a sonnet. But I don't think it's a particularly outstanding one. It's one more occasional poem, from Tim, to Tim, about Tim, with a nod to God at the close. Been there, done that, read that - too often. There are some good lines (the last four), and some pedestrian lines (L3-L5) and cliches ("belching motor"), but little rework and tightening. You can write them with your eyes closed, Tim. What's next?

[Alex Pepple]

Come on, Michael! Did you miss this post of this very thread & page?

...Alex