[David Rosenthal]

Originally Posted by RCrawford

I think the concept of "blind" judging is a good one, generally. But in a small group, like Eratosphere, it may mean a lot of jumping through hoops for no good reason.

I agree with everything you said, Robert, but with 300+ entrants vying for appearances in Able Muse, people might expect different hoops then we're used to. Just sayin'.

David R.

[David Rosenthal]

Originally Posted by Elise Hempel

I agree with any attempts to make blind judging more "blind." I also wonder -- and I'm taking a risk here: Should Alex be posting comments on any of the finalist sonnets? It seems that he may have more than just a little influence.

Alex is well-regarded by most active members of the Sphere for many reasons, but his critical observations are not usually given any more or less weight than anyone else's. At least that has been the case up until now, as far as I have observed.

David R.

[Maryann Corbett]

Originally Posted by RCrawford

I also am continually amazed that with so little at stake this is an issue. Blind is fine, but if the contest rules state that it isn't...you choose to enter or not. No one is forcing us to enter these things

And I didn't this time, for assorted reasons. But I must say that the phrase "tag-team judging" didn't convey to me that the judging wouldn't be blind. In the past, we've had a host and a guest, and the host received the entries, screened for a subgroup of front-runners, and passed those entries on blind. Seeing that the entries were going to an Able Muse address, I honestly assumed that Alex would be at least removing identities.

I do appreciate that all the work involved is indeed work, and I know it's often thankless and sometimes irritating, and I'm grateful to Alex, Cathy, and Gail for doing it.

[Michael Cantor]

Originally Posted by Elise Hempel

I agree with any attempts to make blind judging more "blind." I also wonder -- and I'm taking a risk here: Should Alex be posting comments on any of the finalist sonnets? It seems that he may have more than just a little influence.

Elise, I don't know whether that statement is more insulting to Alex, or to the rest of us for insinuating that we're such geese that we would be more influenced by his comments than by others - or by our own thinking.

The Sphere just doesn't work that way. We're all adults here. Alex owns and manages the site, and is in charge and well respected, but if you read the Workshop Boards you'll note that he never posts his own work, and only infrequently participates in the critical (as opposed to administrative) discussions. Alex's comments have no more influence than anybody else's, and possibly less than some. If anything, you should be concerned that other members - active, vocal, persuasive, well regarded and frequently published - would influence others and "swing" votes. Possibly we should have blind judging and blind comments. Alternately, we can stop worrying about it, vote our hearts and minds, congratulate the winners, thank the judges, and get on to the next poem.

[Michael Cantor]

Thanks, Gail and Cathy, for running a terrific Bake-Off. There were more strong poems - and poems I haven't seen before - than in any other I can remember.

As a geezer myself, I would have been happier with a few less selections that involved aging or the elderly, but on the other hand the diversity of schemes and voices and open approach to what constituted a sonnet was a delight. I wish the Nemerov finalists were regularly as diverse a group as these ten.

I also have to admit that, looking ahead, I would personally be happier with blind judging. It just eliminates a lot of whispering and, frankly, if I were a judge, I would be uncomfortable knowing the identities of every entrant (some you can't help but recognize.) The approach of the "host" stripping out the identities of the writers before passing on the poems to the judge (which is what we've almost always done in the past) is a pain in the butt, but I think it's worth it.

[Brian Allgar]

Originally Posted by Rachael Briggs

Another option would be to design an online submission form, with one script to email poems to the judges, and a separate script to record and store author, title, and contact info for each of the poems. Setup would take some work, but then once you've got it, you can use it over and over again. Making such a thing might be a fun computer literacy project for me at some stage (though I am definitely not a professional).

This is indeed how a number of poetry competitions seem to operate, and I don't think that setting it up would be a major effort for a computer professional. (Actually, I am a computer professional, but in a completely different field, so I can't volunteer.)

[Alex Pepple]

Originally Posted by Elise Hempel

Should Alex be posting comments on any of the finalist sonnets? It seems that he may have more than just a little influence.

Elise, no one here really cares what I think -- as confirmed by David and Michael ... So, once in a while, I shock them out of their disinterest by injecting what I think in random threads!

...Alex

[Alex Pepple]

One final point about some of the well-meaning calls for blind judging: first, not all contests are judged blind, including some better known contests; and second, the bake-off rules are not fixed, and for each bake-off the rules can change change as dictated by the admin and/or the host and/or the DG(s). The rules for this specific bake-off did not include blind judging, especially on the basis of the record-breaking number of submission that was expected. While I and future hosts and DGs will make every effort to run blindly judged bake-offs given the preference for such, this might not be last bake-off not judged blind. Everyone, just keep these points in mind.

Cheers,
...Alex

[Elise Hempel]

I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone. And I love Alex! I was just wondering whether -- and I tried to do it carefully -- as the editor of the magazine where the final three will be published, he should insert an opinion. Everyone influences each other, of course.

[Alex Pepple]

Hey, Elise - that's one love score for me ... and I love you too! But seriously, in the interest of not unduly exercising what influence I might have, I'll now refrain from voting, as I'd meant to do, when the voting thread opens. And that can't hurt in keeping all the finalists happy ... except, perhaps, the ones I'd have voted for!

Cheers,
...Alex