[Glenn Wright]

White Orchids

White is the color of lies,
of innocent-seeming snow
shrouding the fall’s corruption.

          Colorless, scentless,
          the sterile petals are
          like blank pages ready to receive
          whatever fiction
          we press onto them.

Promiscuous brides
carried white orchids
like shields of purity
as they paraded to the altar.

          Men with secrets,
          pretending to be rich,
          sent white orchids,
          which promised no passion
          but impressed with their costliness.

Purchasing protection from painful truth,
I give you this pot of white orchids
and this poem as a proposal.

————————————
Edits:
L7: whatever fiction we prepare > whatever fiction
L8: to press into the, > we press into them > we press onto them
L10: carry > carried
L11: protectors > shields
L12: parade > paraded
L14: insecure, pretending to be rich, > pretending to be rich,
L15: send > sent
L16: promise > promised
L17: but impress with their price. > but impressed with their costliness.
L18: Praying for protection from perfect truth > Purchasing protection from perfect truth > Purchasing protection from painful truth
L19: I present you with a pot of white orchids > I give you this pot of white orchids
L20: and this poem instead of a promise. > and this poem as a proposal.

[Carl Copeland]

Hi, Glenn. I’ll get this started, though I feel almost as exposed critiquing non-met as I would writing it. Here are my random and unselfconfident thoughts:

I like the way “fall” does double duty.

“Prepare to” seems an irrelevant extra step.

“Pretending to be rich” and “but impress with their price” seem to be doing the same job. You could dismiss the latter without any loss of meaning (and only a minor loss of “p” alliterations).

Why do white orchids “promise no passion”? Because they’re not red roses? Because insecure men putting on airs aren’t passionate? Just wondering.

The poem’s paradoxical message seems to be: orchids (and words) lie, and mine too are less than truthful, and that’s the truth. I think I like that.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Glenn Wright

White Orchids

White is the color of lies,
of innocent-seeming snow
shrouding the fall’s corruption.

          Colorless, scentless,
          the sterile petals are
          like blank pages ready to receive
          whatever fiction we prepare
          to press into them.

Promiscuous brides
carry white orchids
like protectors of purity
as they parade to the altar.

          Men with secrets,
          insecure, pretending to be rich,
          send white orchids,
          which promise no passion
          but impress with their price.

Praying for protection from perfect truth,
I present you with a pot of white orchids
and this poem instead of a promise.

The first thing that stood out to me was the form of the poem. I like the approach, but I don't know if bleeding the strophes into each other adds, rather than detracts. I'd prefer spacing, and more embellishment on the strophes that are right justified.

Also, syntax wise I've highlighted a few things you could consider changing.

The word 'seeming' could be replaced with another, stronger and more emotive/visceral adjective. 'Seeming' is fine, but it's taking up space that could be used with something stronger.

At the bottom where I highlighted 'a', you could omit this from the line and it would give it slightly more of a poetic flourish. There are a few other locations where you could do similar, but I'm on the fence about those ones.

The periods. My feeling is that they're only needed when you absolutely need to indicate the end of a sentence, but IMO the spacing does it better here.

[Glenn Wright]

Hi, Carl and Nick—
Thank you both for your helpful critiques.
I had in mind something like the relationship portrayed in Shakespeare’s “Sonnet 138,” based on pretense and lies, but undertaken by both parties with full knowledge and consent. The gift of white orchids—expensive but colorless and scentless—represents the financial basis and emotional emptiness of the arrangement.

Carl, you hit pretty close to my intent. I took your advice about “prepare” being superfluous. I intended the /p/ alliteration to suggest “pooh-poohing’ of any objection to the arrangement, or passionless “air kisses.” I think I might have overdone it. It occurred to me that “purchasing” was a much more apt verb than “praying” in line 18.

Nick, I took your advice on adding space between strophes. I kept the periods, I suppose because, as a former English teacher, I just couldn’t not do so. I also kept “seeming” because I wanted to make a parallel with the lovers, who seem to love each other, but are both really complicit in deception, as the pure-seeming snow is complicit in the coverup of corruption. I kept the “a” in the last line because I meant a specific vow rather than a general hopeful sense of promise.

I appreciate both of you sharing your reactions and well-considered advice.
Glenn

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Glenn Wright

Hi, Carl and Nick—
Thank you both for your helpful critiques.
I had in mind something like the relationship portrayed in Shakespeare’s “Sonnet 138,” based on pretense and lies, but undertaken by both parties with full knowledge and consent. The gift of white orchids—expensive but colorless and scentless—represents the financial basis and emotional emptiness of the arrangement.

Carl, you hit pretty close to my intent. I took your advice about “prepare” being superfluous. I intended the /p/ alliteration to suggest “pooh-poohing’ of any objection to the arrangement, or passionless “air kisses.” I think I might have overdone it. It occurred to me that “purchasing” was a much more apt verb than “praying” in line 18.

Nick, I took your advice on adding space between strophes. I kept the periods, I suppose because, as a former English teacher, I just couldn’t not do so. I also kept “seeming” because I wanted to make a parallel with the lovers, who seem to love each other, but are both really complicit in deception, as the pure-seeming snow is complicit in the coverup of corruption. I kept the “a” in the last line because I meant a specific vow rather than a general hopeful sense of promise.

I appreciate both of you sharing your reactions and well-considered advice.
Glenn

That's fair. On the second point I personally like the 'deviation' device (I just learned it's name recently). I see your point now, although I think you could deviate and use the word promise as a plural, noun (plural of vows). But given the rest of the poem I think most people would read it literally as a sense of promise.

I just enjoy borrowing out of Leonard Cohen's playbook and tearing up language a bit. IMO, it can add some character when you don't keep the language completely straight-laced.

[John Riley]

"Promiscuous brides" is odd and judgemental. I'm not saying that from some political pov. We live in a world now where it's weird/inaccurate to call a woman promiscuous. Women have sex. Men have sex. The word dates the poem.

Overall, there are too many words. "White is the color of lies" pretty well sums up the S1. I guess S2 is calling her unfaithful? If so the first two lines do that fine. S3 doesn't need the second line or the last line. S4 doesn't need the first line.

I assume there will be arguments that you need those lines but they're full of abstrations. When you use so many abstractions they become more of the poet's opinion. There is a finger-wagging vibration.

My half-penny. Hope it helps.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by John Riley

"Promiscuous brides" is odd and judgemental. I'm not saying that from some political pov. We live in a world now where it's weird/inaccurate to call a woman promiscuous. Women have sex. Men have sex. The word dates the poem.

I didn't see this initially, but it's a good point. To me it's not the word that's the issue, it's that it's associated with women and not men. I think you're generally ok if you associate it with both.

I passed over the line without thinking about it, but you are going to get alarm bells from feminists. And your poetry should be on the right side of feminist thought.

Overall, there are too many words. "White is the color of lies" pretty well sums up the S1. I guess S2 is calling her unfaithful? If so the first two lines do that fine. S3 doesn't need the second line or the last line. S4 doesn't need the first line.

I assume there will be arguments that you need those lines but they're full of abstrations. When you use so many abstractions they become more of the poet's opinion. There is a finger-wagging vibration.

I think John's pretty much right in summing up what most readers of poetry are looking for in a poem. Imagery and sonics, and without these you'd likely have a hard time being published.

But to offer a counterpoint, my personal opinion is that there is such a focus on imagery in poetry that it's starting to become too common. Imagery and invocation makes for a beautiful poem, but when almost all poets are focused on imagery, then eventually what everyone's writing has a kind of 'samey' feel. Good poetry that's like all the other good poetry.

If you want to be published and write for others it's absolutely the way you need to go, as it's what readers expect, but if you're writing for yourself I'd encourage you to work loosely with the rules. It's more fun and freeing that way.

[Glenn Wright]

Quote:
I didn't see this initially, but it's a good point. To me it's not the word that's the issue, it's that it's associated with women and not men. I think you're generally ok if you associate it with both.

I passed over the line without thinking about it, but you are going to get alarm bells from feminists. And your poetry should be on the right side of feminist thought. —Nick McRae
—————————————————————————————————————————-

Hmm. Don’t alarm bells go off in your head when you aren’t allowed to write anything for publication without an imprimatur from some panel of feminists? (or bishops? or MAGA school board members?). Just asking.

I’m not saying all brides are promiscuous. I don’t think a reasonable feminist would find grounds for objection. Women certainly do not have a monopoly on promiscuity. Nor do men have a monopoly on secrets. But men don’t carry white orchid bridal bouquets as emblems of virginity.

[Nick McRae]

Originally Posted by Glenn Wright

Quote:
I didn't see this initially, but it's a good point. To me it's not the word that's the issue, it's that it's associated with women and not men. I think you're generally ok if you associate it with both.

I passed over the line without thinking about it, but you are going to get alarm bells from feminists. And your poetry should be on the right side of feminist thought. —Nick McRae
—————————————————————————————————————————-

Hmm. Don’t alarm bells go off in your head when you aren’t allowed to write anything for publication without an imprimatur from some panel of feminists? (or bishops? or MAGA school board members?). Just asking.

I guess I'm mainly just highlighting how it could be read by some readers. I've had a line land poorly (and unexpectedly) for some because of a similar reason. If you haven't had many readers before it's worth noting, but what you do with that info is your call.

[John Riley]

Glenn, I expected the “pearl-clutching” reaction that entirely misses the point. Comparing promiscuous with monogamous underscores what is happening. First off I don’t wear pearls and I wish someone could find something new to say in that situation. It’s pretty worn out. Fox needs to come up with something new. I simply tried to point out that calling a woman promiscuous is so 1965. Yes, it is judgmental by design. The word was invented as a way for people who do wear pearls to call a woman a slut. If you truly cannot see how that differs from monogamous that may the root of the problem. It’s simply a dumb thing to say there. Maybe call her unfaithful? That is much closer to her being dishonest than promiscuous.

It’s always interesting the things that set people off. One of my favorites is when someone is called out for their insults. Why do people fight so hard to maintain their insulting words? I had an uncle who was a kind man who hired African Americans and treated them with dignity, always fair, who also insisted he’d used the “n-word” his whole life and damn well would use it until he died. I noticed that when I was twelve or so and still have no answer for why insulting and degrading words are so dear to people.