[Jim Moonan]

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Your points are well-taken by me, Max. I barged in with very little to offer other than frustration. (Hence the cryptic (Mood) at the end.)

I am, nearly to a fault, hopeful and optimistic about the seismic changes that are rumbling. It's time. My frustration comes from the disorder and chaos that fogs the progress. But I am with you all the way. For too long we've made molehills out of mountains. Now it's time to climb.
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[Jim Moonan]

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Max, thanks for the nudge to ponder more about our condition. I’ve done some searching. Here's what I found.

This is compelling: The Great Pause. (I heard of the project before but had forgotten about it — which is in and of itself confirmation that maybe there is something to it).

And this is a dramatic interpretation of that condition we called "normal".

I found this an intriguing read.


Btw, one of my frustrations with this conversation was that it had drifted so far from the original focus of the thread. Not that I was following it that closely, but it was one of those threads that take on a life of its own. Not a bad thing. More of a rumination than a discussion, I suppose. I was just in the mood to barge.

Have I barged in again? I’m always barging. I will not barge. I will not barge. I will not barge. I will not barge...
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[Mark McDonnell]

Armageddon is beginning to look a lot like cacophony. I've a limited appetite for splicing opinions down to slivers ad nauseam.

Jim, I have some sympathy with this. I've posted so much here recently, on this, the George Floyd thread, others. I even tried to pick a fight about Sonnets. I'm getting tired of the sound of my own voice. I offer apologies to anyone else who feels the same. I had a revelation today. It just said...silence.

I'm coming up to two years sober now, and I have a theory that rambling on GT has been my compulsive replacement for booze. I need a different one. The more verbose I am, the more forcefully I think I'm making my points, providing links, being thorough and articulate, the worse I feel afterwards, like a beer-blues guilt hangover after a bender. I look back at myself being so insufferably sure, when I'm really not, and I say "Never again". And then someone posts something else and it's like a bottle opening and I want to carry on till everyone else has staggered home. I always end up feeling bad, not least because I appear to be alone in my tendency to take the seemingly unfashionable line on these free speech issues, one which has become bizarrely associated with the political right to whom I feel zero affiliation. But it's true there are many ways that I feel an aversion to a strain of the, certainly cultural, left. So I'm a centrist? Nah. I want a socialist economy. I'm nothing. Maybe I just have a compulsion to be contrary, or an aversion to certainty maybe. Or am too swayed by the "optics of reasonableness" as Aaron put it. I suppose that's possible. This thread, with its theme of public disgrace and loss of reputation, began to feel weirdly 'meta' to me as I dug in more, defending the Harper's letter, defending 'problematic' poetry, defending sexist jokes by old scientists, defending the take on the trans issue from the 'wrong' perspective. And the more any lack of agreement became apparent, the more I began to realise I'd be better shutting up. Except, I wasn't defending these things; in each case I was criticising their consequences. Ah well. I've said it before but I'm definitely done here now. Nothing is solved and I feel worse and more baffled than when I entered the discussion. Still questioning my own take on things, but definitely unconvinced by any other. I'm just going to vote Labour like always, give to the charities of my choice and try to be kind. And read less news.

And stick to poetry. Poetry never makes me feel like this. It doesn't have to be right, but I know when it's true.

[Max Goodman]

I feel ya, Jim. It's a confusing time (and thread). We're not in Kansas anymore. (And thank G-d for that!) Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.