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  #11  
Unread 05-27-2020, 02:00 PM
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Orwn Acra Orwn Acra is offline
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Andrew, much appreciated. I had played around with, but could not figure out how to do so non-hamfistedly, a bit about a forked tongue, playing on its metaphorical and literal meanings:


A [My] forked tongue points in contrary directions: you can realize.... or you can believe....

A [My] forked tongue points to two choices: you can realize.... or you can believe...


Something like that, which I thought might ambiguate the scene with the possibility that perhaps, but only perhaps, the choice is a false dichotomy. Yet I think there is a truth to what serpent/Satan/Iblis says: those who express themselves in their own terms and those who do not.

Everyone's comments have been so thoughtful and thought-provoking.
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  #12  
Unread 05-28-2020, 03:32 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
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Hi Walter,

I like the idea of a forked tongue suggesting the serpent/Satan and hence suggesting that what follows may not be true, also the play on "tongue" and that a fork indicates a decision, two possible routes.

I don't think you'd necessarily need "points in contrary directions"/"points to two choices", since that's shown by what follows.

Possibly, since the choice is Adam's not the serpent's:

Your tongue forks here: you can realize.... or you can believe....

Or maybe:

All tongues fork here: ...

-Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 05-28-2020 at 05:26 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 05-28-2020, 07:06 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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I havenít anything of substance to add but wanted to echo othersí praise. Such brilliant sensitivity to word meaning juxtaposed over layers of time and culture. I can barely keep up. The burrowing (if thatís the right word, it may not be exactly right ó ferreting? Semantics really) you undertake to unflesh words down to the bone gives me a sense of disorientation that leads to wonder. Word paths that lead me, surprisingly content, in a state of limbo. Keep them coming.
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  #14  
Unread 05-28-2020, 11:05 PM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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I like the image of the forked tongue, with its two-pronged meaning. It made me think of Frost's fork in the road: the tongue less traveled.

But for me the problem still would remain that what follows reads more like a philosophical statement than a passage of imaginative writing, which I think is the genre you are aiming at, however philosophical it may be. Part 2 goes in the direction of solemn prescription, and a bit more playfulness or something less expected than a bald dichotomy between poststructural theory and exoteric theological theory would help.

Btw, the more esoteric understanding of being made in God's image is less determinate even than the first alternative you describe, since God in the mystical sense is indetermination or nondelimitedness itself. You may be hinting at that, but the connection might be made more explicit if so. But again, I'd search for a way to say it less solemnly, which does not seem to fit the mood of this series.
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  #15  
Unread 05-30-2020, 12:07 PM
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Matt, Andrew, Jim, thank you.

Here is a possible revision. Andrew, it doesn't really address your issues; whether or not I am OK with this one being slightly more prescriptivist is something I can answer only when I've finished writing the series and its assorted auras emit their energies back to me. You may be right that this one feels off, or it may be that this is what the collection needs. I don't know yet. I am with you with the indetermination of God; I think other entries deal with that more explicitly.

No matter that my tongue forks: you can either express yourself in your own terms, a language that is resilient, social, of shifting sense. Or you can believe you are clay carved into an ideogram of His being: in a word, unalterable, because in His word. In which case, you will waste your life reading your face over and over again, and being sorry for the story it tells.
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  #16  
Unread 05-31-2020, 01:43 AM
Andrew Frisardi Andrew Frisardi is offline
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I hear you on the wider context of the series, Walter, and yes, I like it with the tongue image. It gives a new angle on that familiar image.
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  #17  
Unread 05-31-2020, 10:56 AM
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Aaron Novick Aaron Novick is offline
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Walter, I love the first half of this, but at least at the moment I share Frisardi's worry about the back half. I wonder if the main cause of that is that the "right" answer is given so explicitly.
In which case, you will waste your life reading your face over and over again, and being sorry for the story it tells.
This is marvelous, and the note of caution it strikes hits just right. Can you keep that caution about unalterability without spelling out the alternative quite so explicitly?
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