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  #11  
Unread 04-10-2021, 08:23 AM
W T Clark W T Clark is offline
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I think it would be very judicious to remember that this site is a workshop forum, not a vanity posting forum. When one posts a poem here, they should expect to receive honest criticism; not praise. If someone thinks there poem is above criticism, in other words that it does not need it, then maybe one of the vanity posting sites would be more appropriate for that poem.

P.S.: JFC I learn stands for "Jesus fucking Christ".
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  #12  
Unread 04-10-2021, 08:50 AM
Mark McDonnell Mark McDonnell is offline
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Daniel,

You're sincere about the poetry you write, I know that. I don't think you're a troll. You may have been drunk when you posted your response, I don't know. I think you're overly defensive and need to open your mind to honest criticism a little. But nobody's perfect.
My pointing out of your typo was an attempt at a joke around the idea of the poem's lack of subtlety. I'm not sure what reaction you wanted to this poem, but your blustering reply suggests you had a very definite one in mind and it wasn't the one Julie or I gave you. As Cameron says, this approach to workshopping is doomed. You even have the self-involvement to see other people's lack of reaction as somehow significant, rather than as just indifference, or it being a slow day. Do you think people are shocked by the poem? Do you want them to be? I really doubt they are. Do you think people actually find the poem hilarious and clever but are too politically correct to say so? I really doubt that too. So here's my absolutely honest take. You can put the right tabs into the right slots, technically you know how to construct metred verse and occasionally you produce a poem which has elements that work for me. But, and I can't speak for anyone else, too often I find your poems to be heavy-handed, bloated, somewhat boring and now and again vaguely unpleasant. This is one of those times. The unpleasantness produced by this poem doesn't lie in the subject matter or the explicitness. It isn't prudery. It's something very hard to define about the voice. There's a sneer in it.

Last edited by Mark McDonnell; 04-12-2021 at 10:44 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 04-10-2021, 12:24 PM
Yves S L Yves S L is offline
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Oooooooooooh, a pile-on.

I did not initially reply, Daniel, because you appear very comfortable within your own self-proclaimed virtuosity, and I suspected you would take less than glowing commentary very personally, especially relative to how your poems in The Deep End were received: thus I suspected that a reply would just create conflict and tension and all around hurt feelings.

It is always fun when one's analyses are confirmed, but all the tension is not so fun. l wish you better times.
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  #14  
Unread 04-10-2021, 12:27 PM
Martin Elster Martin Elster is offline
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Hi Daniel,

sauternes: in my dictionary, the final “s” is not pronounced. The word is also capitalized: Sauternes.

chicharron: Julie mentioned the accent. But in my dictionary, there is no accent mark. But maybe my dictionary is not correct (as it’s my computer’s dictionary).

Regarding the poem overall, I agree with several other readers that each part could be a stand-alone poem. I also concur with Julie about “less is more” and “leave something to the reader’s imagination.”
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  #15  
Unread 04-10-2021, 12:37 PM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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It's not a pile-on from where I sit, at least for me.
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  #16  
Unread 04-10-2021, 03:27 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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.
Hi Daniel,

There's an app for that.


(I just figured it was an appropriate time to say something useful.)

.
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  #17  
Unread 04-10-2021, 10:28 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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Not all English dictionaries agree on whether chicharrón should have a written accent. But all Spanish dictionaries do, because its absence dramatically changes the pronunciation. And the poem seems to be using the Spanish double meaning of "a piece of fried pork crackling" and slang for a person who is very suntanned; English dictionaries only give the food definition.

Merriam-Webster's English Dictionary:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...hicharr%C3%B3n
Lexico.com (Oxford):
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/chicharron
Others:
https://dle.rae.es/chicharr%C3%B3n?m=form
https://www.wordreference.com/es/en/...hicharr%C3%B3n
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicharr%C3%B3n

The penultimate syllable of a Spanish word usually gets the stress, so a written accent is needed to make the stress fall on the final syllable of chi-cha-RRÓN--otherwise, it would be pronounced "chi-CHA-rron". The singular's written accent disappears in the plural, chicharrones, because with the addition of the plural "-es", the "rron" syllable has become the penultimate, and the stress falls there anyway.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 04-10-2021 at 11:24 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 04-11-2021, 07:24 AM
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Catherine Chandler Catherine Chandler is offline
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Daniel,
You oughta take this turkey out behind the barn, and shoot it!
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  #19  
Unread 04-11-2021, 11:09 AM
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Allen Tice Allen Tice is offline
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I worked on a turkey farm once, and what they did was scoop up the bird by its feet, swing it around maybe once until it head hit something. EOF for turkey.
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  #20  
Unread 04-11-2021, 03:38 PM
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Catherine Chandler Catherine Chandler is offline
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Allen:
Speaking of turkey farms, a great read is Alice Munro's "The Turkey Season." My uncle didn't have a turkey farm, so he'd just shoot them.
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