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  #11  
Unread 02-18-2024, 11:50 AM
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Alexandra Baez Alexandra Baez is offline
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David, ah, I missed the legal references. I see--the first sentence makes perfect sense if “encumbrance” is taken to mean a “mortgage on property or other assets.” The land doesn’t have that, but it still has other, natural obstacles: I really like this distinction, but I just worry about how many people will catch it by taking “encumbrance” as you intended it. Apparently I’m not the only one who didn’t.

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I was wondering about finishing on the current penultimate line. Is it strong enough by itself?
It’s pretty strong, but I think it is made more expansive, and the poem more ringingly complete, by following the line with “and stands around you.”

Quote:
The only line I see as being non-metaphorical is, "take the paths worn out by sheep." which is a beautiful line that, although not metaphorical, is richly suggestive of so many things.
Well, it wouldn’t be too hard to extract a metaphor out of this line, were it not for the line that follows. Of course, “sheep” symbolize those who follow someone or something with blind trust, and surely the paths of such ones are the most well-worn. But such “sheep” would hardly be caught in “thoughtful musings.” Still, since you’ve already geared us toward metaphor in this poem, I’m inclined to derive some sort of paradox from this passage.
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  #12  
Unread 02-18-2024, 03:53 PM
Julie Steiner Julie Steiner is offline
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For me, having raised sheep and been distinctly unimpressed by their capacity for deep thought, "Scrambling out of the metaphor, / take the paths worn out by sheep / in their thoughful musings" simply evokes the expression "wool-gathering".

I had some trouble diagramming the following sentence, which seems to be two independent sentences spliced together so that the "although" clauses seem to modify the first, and then the second:

To walk the land is to possess it
on leases of a stride's length,
each ceded easily, without
encumbrance, although
brambles may raise objections, mists
intermeddle, petty fogs
parlay you into dull circum-
locutions, keep on.

I would prefer to punctuate that as:

To walk the land is to possess it
on leases of a stride's length,
each ceded easily, without
encumbrance. Although
brambles may raise objections, mists
intermeddle, petty fogs
parlay you into dull circum-
locutions, keep on.

That way, the "Although" clauses modify the circumstances under which the reader is exhorted to "keep on," rather than seeming only to contradict and undermine the modifiers "easily, without encumbrance." Their position might still allow that suggestion as well, but without committing to leaving that interpretation open as firmly as the comma splice seems to.

Not sure I like making an expansive idea like "Unenclosed" so choppy (although I do like the lack of a full stop after it). Perhaps punctuate the last line as:

and stands around you, unenclosed

I liked the suggestion of a John Clare quotation about the enclosure of public lands, but can't recommend one in particular.

Very nice, David.

Last edited by Julie Steiner; 02-18-2024 at 03:56 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 02-20-2024, 03:09 AM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
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Hi David,

A lot to like here. I particularly like "lease" and how the opening seems to say that no one can truly possess the land. Also the the encumbrances -- the objecting brambles and petty fogs. I wonder if the reference to the Enclosures in "unenclosed" needs a little more to set it up. I do see the reference now you point it out. Maybe there's a way to use the title to do that? Or some reference to fences?

The grammar of the first sentence wrongfoots me. Either change the comma after "encumbrance" to a full stop, or put a full stop after "circum-locutions". Otherwise it's hard to tell which clause attaches to which and how. The first of these two options seems to make more sense.

I'm not sure what the meta move of "Scrambling out of the metaphor" gains you. Also, it seems like taking the paths of well-worn thought maybe is staying in the metaphor rather than scrambling somewhere fresh? Likely I'm missing something, but the poem seems to work just as well without that line. The stanza break you mention forgetting to add may well help here.

"thoughtful musing" seems a bit flat to me, after all, it seems a bit like saying "thoughtful thought". Maybe find an adjective to replace "thoughtful" that conveys something of an image. I dunno, "cloven" or "woolly" or "slow-paced" or something else.

best,

Matt
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  #14  
Unread 02-20-2024, 04:01 PM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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Thank you, Matt! Going through the comments, I was surprised that nobody else was bothered by the "Scrambling out of the metaphor" line until you came along. For me, it sideswiped a good poem. Cut that line and replace it with a stanza break and you're golden.

Last edited by Michael Cantor; 02-20-2024 at 04:42 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 02-20-2024, 04:32 PM
Matt Q Matt Q is online now
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Just back to say that this might work as a Clare epigraph if you wanted one:

And birds and trees and flowers without a name
All sighed when lawless law’s enclosure came


It's from "The Mores" (as in "moors"), though I'm sure you knew that already.

-Matt

Last edited by Matt Q; 02-20-2024 at 04:39 PM.
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  #16  
Unread 02-20-2024, 07:18 PM
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Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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Hi David,

I read this and liked it when it first came up, and now that I've gotten back to it, I see it's gotten a good workout.

I was also thrown by the seemingly unnecessary metaphor line. I think Michael's suggestion of a stanza break in its place is a good one. And I like Nemo's suggestion for the closing (unenclosing...) line.

Rick
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  #17  
Unread 02-22-2024, 01:20 PM
David Callin David Callin is offline
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Thanks all. I am posting a revision which takes account of a lot of the suggestions made by Alexandra, Julie, Matt, Michael and Rick on this page - not all of them, which may be a mistake, so I don't rule out further changes.

And I also have in mind the comments from Joe, Nemo, Jim, John and Phil on the previous page.

I haven't attached a Clare epigraph yet, much as I like the idea (and the one suggested by Matt), simply because it doesn't seem quite right in a Manx context. Perhaps I'm being too parochial there.

Cheers all

David
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  #18  
Unread 02-22-2024, 02:00 PM
Michael Cantor Michael Cantor is offline
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Yes!........
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  #19  
Unread 02-22-2024, 02:18 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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.
A perfectly good poem made better by careful revision. I think you've walked this one home.

.
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  #20  
Unread 02-27-2024, 01:27 PM
David Callin David Callin is offline
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Thanks, Michael, Jim. I think his has had its time in the sun now. It's enjoyed it.

Cheers all

David
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