Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 05-19-2024, 05:19 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 249
Default

Hi, Nemo, Jim, John, and Roger

It seems that the density of the rhymes, the meaningless emptiness of the themes, and the lack of originality in the form are the main problems you have identified.

The rhyme density is a characteristic of the rubaiyat form. In this poem, the speaker is in a liminal, dreamlike place between life and death. His feelings are ambivalent—he is both attracted to the death waiting for him on the other side of the threshold and terrified by it. This theme is presented in the lines you omitted, Roger . The structure of the poem suggests the metamorphosis from one state (living) to the next (death) by introducing the rhyme at the end of the third line of each stanza that will be the seed that grows into the next stanza. The butterflies (which are not intended to be taken as real, necessarily, in this surreal landscape, Jim), are also emblematic of this metamorphic, liminal state. East and west also represent the boundary between life and death that the speaker straddles. The poem should make the reader wonder how the speaker arrived at this juncture. Did he seek death out? Why does La Catrina try to seduce the speaker instead of attacking him? Is the calmness that replaces his fear a result of his entry into oblivion or is it an acceptance of the next stage of his development? Is the grotesque blending of sexuality (which implies birth) and decomposition (which implies death) suggesting that the speaker is generating a new stage in his development, like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly or a phoenix rising from its own ashes? I suggest that there might be layers to the poem that you have not shown me that you have considered.

I am the one who first called the poem an exercise, John. Just as an čtude in music should do more than simply exercise the pianist’s fingers, so a poetic exercise should offer some engaging content. I think this poem gives the reader some things to consider, Nemo, and is more than just a “schoolboyish gesture of reverence for the past” or a “parlor game.” But it is hardly fair to fault a short, simple poem for not being The Odyssey. William Blake’s critics made many of the same objections to his Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience.

Thank you all for taking the time and effort to respond to my work. A poet explaining his poem is like a comedian explaining his joke. It either works or it doesn’t. Sometimes adjustments can improve them and sometimes not, but pleading one’s case for the reader to reconsider his well-considered opinion or arguing with the reader is not an option.

Glenn

Last edited by Glenn Wright; 05-19-2024 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 05-19-2024, 08:27 PM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,356
Default

Glenn, maybe it’s best to not post exercises. People who are good enough to comment on a poem will not know it’s only an exercise. Why should one take time to read and comment on an exercise? I wouldn’t have anything to say about finger exercises on a piano keyboard either. The goal here is to make our poems better.

I’ve enjoyed reading your work.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 05-19-2024, 09:10 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 249
Default

Thanks for the encouragement and wise advice, John.
Glenn
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 05-22-2024, 02:43 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 249
Default

Actually, Jim, monarch butterflies from North America migrate south between August and October.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 05-23-2024, 02:22 PM
David Callin David Callin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ellan Vannin
Posts: 3,410
Default

Hi Glenn, Yes, I got the "Belle Dame sans Merci" vibe as well, and also a touch of the more Gothic Coleridge. (There was something called "Geraldine"? I haven't had a chance to look that up.)

The poem works well in that mode, but it is very much in that mode (although that's a conscious choice of yours).

Personally, I found the intrusion of the non-rhyming L3 in each verse rather off-putting. I'd like to read a version of this where you rhyme all four lines in the verse. The result might be a bit overwhelming, but probably a lot of fun. I think so anyway.

Cheers

David
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 05-29-2024, 11:27 AM
Perry Miller Perry Miller is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2024
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 41
Default

Hello, all. This is my first day here. I just want to say that the standards here must be extraordinarily high if an exercise poem like this is considered a complete failure (as some seem to think). True, it doesn't have much personal angst in it, which seems to be the currency of poetry, but still, it's impressive as a display of Glenn's basic skills.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 05-29-2024, 12:35 PM
Roger Slater Roger Slater is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 16,540
Default

Perry, you are correct. The standards here are very high. "Basic skills" are largely assumed.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 05-29-2024, 01:00 PM
Nick McRae Nick McRae is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Miller View Post
Hello, all. This is my first day here. I just want to say that the standards here must be extraordinarily high if an exercise poem like this is considered a complete failure (as some seem to think). True, it doesn't have much personal angst in it, which seems to be the currency of poetry, but still, it's impressive as a display of Glenn's basic skills.
As a relatively recent newcomer I've seen how the bluntness can be a shock to the system, but without a level of frankness, and all praise, newcomers can't learn.

As long as it doesn't slide into crassness it's all good, but that happens too.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 05-29-2024, 01:17 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 1,773
Default

I learn more from a concentrated dose of tough criticism than from a whole dessert cart of praise.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 05-29-2024, 01:46 PM
W T Clark W T Clark is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: England
Posts: 1,359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Miller View Post
Hello, all. This is my first day here. I just want to say that the standards here must be extraordinarily high if an exercise poem like this is considered a complete failure (as some seem to think). True, it doesn't have much personal angst in it, which seems to be the currency of poetry, but still, it's impressive as a display of Glenn's basic skills.
Why would I want to read someone's "basic skills"?
And, of course, the "angst" thing is a tall and bloated strawman.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
rubaiyat

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,420
Total Threads: 22,015
Total Posts: 272,779
There are 787 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online