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  #21  
Unread 01-15-2020, 12:22 AM
Damian Balassone Damian Balassone is offline
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Thanks for that beautiful link Cally. I had not seen that before, but I am familiar with the Lawson brothers. Good on him for writing that. Heartfelt.

I can only imagine how tough last year would have been in Tassie. I recall reading some pieces by Richard Flanagan (brother of Martin) about it. I'm not a big fan of air-con either, but I'm with you, it's an absolute necessity now. We have evaporative cooling, which is okay for a day or two, but then it really starts to struggle with the load. There's a cool change coming soon here, we're told - my hands are folded.

We live in Warrandyte, so have to keep a close eye all the time on the VIC emergency app. Two weeks back, when it was 45 degrees, my wife packed a few things and took the kids to her parents’ house in Reservoir as a precaution (I was at work). And would you believe it, there was a fire just down the road from them in Bundoora.

I can only imagine the terror of 1967. How close were you to the action?

I drove up to the 2003 alpine bushfires in the middle of the night (to aid a friend) and will never forget what I saw – Mt Buffalo with streaks of fire through it – like something out of Mordor. And I also recall the befuddled roos stranded by the side of the road, not knowing where to go, as their forest was on fire.
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  #22  
Unread 01-23-2020, 06:05 AM
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Jan Iwaszkiewicz Jan Iwaszkiewicz is offline
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Fires flaring still on the South Coast of New South Wales at emergency level , three dead as air tanker crashed homes lost on the back of hail in Melbourne and floods in Queensland. Temperature hit 43 on the farm today trees dying, dams drying and no feed and there is no climate change.
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  #23  
Unread 01-23-2020, 06:57 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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It's time to panic, Greta-style: https://www.facebook.com/bloombergbu...7812020943466/
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  #24  
Unread 01-23-2020, 08:03 AM
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Jan Iwaszkiewicz Jan Iwaszkiewicz is offline
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Sorry Jim it is not time to panic it is time to all work together in solutions. The centre must hold, breast beating and denial will not cut it.
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  #25  
Unread 01-23-2020, 09:14 PM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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"Panic Greta-style" is meant to allude to her remarkable use of the word "panic" as a call to action. Did you watch then link? Right from the outset of her speech she debunks the myth that "panic" is her message. (It's more urgent than that.)
The speech was given at the World Economic Forum Annual Meeting in Davos, Switzerland on 1/21/20.
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  #26  
Unread 01-23-2020, 11:07 PM
Jan Iwaszkiewicz's Avatar
Jan Iwaszkiewicz Jan Iwaszkiewicz is offline
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Sorry Jim I have heard, but both extremes do little, we need action we need the generally silent centre to stand. She polarises by assumption of the moral high ground. We do not need polarisation we need cohesion we need to draw together all the uncomfortable bedfellows for the good of this world and all the life on it. Crusaders do feel good about themselves but do not have a blanket history of success.
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  #27  
Unread 01-24-2020, 06:24 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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Jan, You are, of course, right in many respects. But GT does not polarize IMO.The polarization had taken place before her arrival on the scene. I would argue that she galvanizes. She catalyzes. She is not extreme, in my view. She articulates a sense of urgency (not panic -- that is what the clip I linked to is about, in my view: Panic = Urgency.)
Does she ignite the extreme? Yes. but the extremes are by definition tinderboxes that easily ignite. "Now is the time to act" is her urgent (not panicked) message.

I had been luke-warm to her ability to champion/speak to the solutions to the climate emergency. But I keep listening to her (yes, I know there are extreme forces at work trying to manipulate her -- I believe that time will show that she is in fact using them to advance what has been her singular objective: to expose the hypocrisy of the powers-that-be and hold them accountable for their actions. She is a seminal voice.

For now, I'll take Greta's clarion call over the false notes of the political and economic power-elites.

But of course, as you say, the tipping point will come when the silent center stands and says, "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more." Every voice — left, right and center — that champions that effort counts.

But I'm with you... And let the rains fall all over Australia.
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  #28  
Unread 01-24-2020, 06:44 AM
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Andrew Mandelbaum Andrew Mandelbaum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Iwaszkiewicz View Post
Sorry Jim I have heard, but both extremes do little, we need action we need the generally silent centre to stand. She polarises by assumption of the moral high ground. We do not need polarisation we need cohesion we need to draw together all the uncomfortable bedfellows for the good of this world and all the life on it. Crusaders do feel good about themselves but do not have a blanket history of success.
Act immediately and broadly to stop the loss of biodiversity vs do nothing, everything is fine are not two extremes. The kid is no crusader in the sense of the violent certainties that fuel crusades are not present in demands to address the human destruction of so many species. The center rarely acts until the body count builds up and reaches their porch steps. It is ludicrous that this kid's voice is even needed this far into one species wrecking the biomes at breakneck speed. Working together is exactly right. But the left hand taking the toxins out of the river while the right shovels them in is not working together. The facts she presents and the demands are extreme not her position. This will not work out with half measures and a dream of business as usual.
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  #29  
Unread 01-25-2020, 06:15 AM
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Jan Iwaszkiewicz Jan Iwaszkiewicz is offline
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Hi Jim, she is not galvanising the centre nor is she converting the opposite extreme IMHO. She is being used and I think she wants to be. how can someone that young be immune to the headiness of where she is at, a modern day Joan of Arc We are facing massive problems on many fronts and global warming is a major one but not the only one. Oikophobia is alive and well and hardly solution oriented.

At present a six inch downpour is six inches between the drops.


I think your view a wee bit too simplistic Andrew and it is not something I put forward at all. To change or activate the centre requires a lot more.

Regards

JAN

Last edited by Jan Iwaszkiewicz; 01-25-2020 at 06:18 AM.
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  #30  
Unread 01-25-2020, 08:10 AM
Jim Moonan Jim Moonan is offline
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I am aware of her reputation in some quarters as being "manipulated".

I don't worship the ground she walks on or view her as a savior of the environment. She is just one more cog in the wheel.

I don’t mean to distract this conversation away from the climate events unfolding in Australia. We have thoughtlessly, cruelly, greedily engaged in waging war against the environment for too long and the environment is responding to those attacks by going to war against us, the aggressors. Nature is a living organism that is collectively infinitely more robust than any single living thing and will kill us if it has to to survive.

Jan, Andrew, you both sound convoluted in your thinking about her. Yet both of you are among the most articulate thinkers and writers I know. So why can't I decipher what you are saying? Do you appreciate the contributions of Greta Thonberg or not? She is without doubt being “handled” by others. And I do see your point about using the word “panic” as a descriptor / motivator. “Panic” as a word and an action is problematic. But she used the term in a broader context than the narrow definition inion of the word. I’ve personally “panicked” more than a few times about issues close to me. It (the “panic”) always seems to represent a kind of awakening to reality. It has always led to more reasoned, more rational, more constructive action. It spurs and awakes me to resolution.

I don’t fawn over her or consider her a “leader” or an “expert” in climate / environmental issues. I see her as more of an educational tool for the young. She is an emblematic figure that signals a further awakening of societies to what is happening. But there are other equally / more important fronts where positive change is beginning to take root: increased innovation in green technologies / energy to create green economies, political "green" platforms that have gained traction here in the US (albeit tenuous), etc. etc. Greta Thonberg represents a rather superficial aspect of global environmental awareness that is useful because it is easily digestible to the general public across all cultures. That can only help.
Is she the “brains” behind the solutions to the world’s environmental crises? No.
Is she the child screaming in the room of adult idiots until she is heard? Yes.
Does what she say make sense? Yes.
Does what she represents provide other children with ways to constructively engage? Yes.

She is the child who, annoyingly, won’t go away. She is, in some ways, an apparition of the future. She is herself a victim of nature’s randomness and indifference to its own creation. She suffers from aspergers/ASD which ironically uniquely equips her with the ability to focus relentlessly on a single subject/topic. What better role model can you point to for children to emulate? It we are lucky and if she survives these formative years between childhood and adulthood she may very well turn into a bonafide catalyst in her own right for positive environmental change. Like Malala Yousafzai. She has matured into a real force for change and hope for women around the world suffering from oppression and abuse in so many ways.
Will she and what she stands for make a positive difference going forward? Let's not throw cold water on her. Let's praise her efforts and guard her from being negatively manipulated.
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Last edited by Jim Moonan; 01-25-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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