[Maryann Corbett]

Originally Posted by ross hamilton hill

What is the definition of a sonnet for the purpose of this comp?

Alex I don't see how this is an open-ended question, it is a specific question, your judges should have a definition of a sonnet that they use, it is not a question of what I think, it is a question of what they think, since it is their decision. Surely if you have a sonnet competition you also have a definite idea of what a sonnet is?

This question comes up repeatedly. Here's a link to a discussion of the issue in a long-past year, when we knew the judge and could ask him directly.

I'm trying to find a discussion in a past year, by Julie Steiner I think, that presents HER basic criteria, which I recall as fourteen lines, a clear rhyme scheme, and a turn. (I hope she'll jump in if I'm not remembering correctly).

When Alex and others give the answer "a sonnet is what you say it is," their main concern, I think, is to avoid restricting people to the Elizabethan and Petrarchan forms, and to allow for alternative forms like the terza rima sonnet, or the Stefanile or the Hilbertian or the sonnenizio or the Sapphic sonnet--or forms I haven't heard of yet.

As for meter, in this contest we mostly see IP, but we've seen tet and trimeter. We may have seen hexameter; of that I'm less sure. We've seen rough accentual pent.

[ross hamilton hill]

thanks Maryann,
I can understand why Alex wanted to leave it up to me, it seems there is no clear cut definition.
My concern was, I rarely write in lines long enough to be considered a sonnet meter.
No point in spending hours perfecting a poem if it doesn't qualify.
Think I'll pass on this one.

[R. Nemo Hill]

"No point in spending hours perfecting a poem if it doesn't qualify."
So much for the poetic calling.

Nemo

[Julie Steiner]

Originally Posted by Maryann Corbett

I'm trying to find a discussion in a past year, by Julie Steiner I think, that presents HER basic criteria, which I recall as fourteen lines, a clear rhyme scheme, and a turn. (I hope she'll jump in if I'm not remembering correctly).

Maybe this one, Maryann? [Insert standard caveat that my personal criteria aren't necessarily those of this year's judge.]

I've only made the finals once, but I really don't think my unsuccessful entries have been a waste of time. Coming up with something new that won't be instantly recognizable as mine is part of the fun.

[ross hamilton hill]

Nemo I'm not passing on poetry just the sonnet, I mentioned a while back that I have decided not to post poetry for the foreseeable future. I'm quite happy just to write for myself.
After months meditating (about 45 years ago) I did receive a 'calling' a disembodied voice in the night telling me what I should do. It sounds funny or weird but I was so frightened by the experience that the next morning I couldn't remember what it was the voice had said. I'm pretty sure it wasn't 'be a poet' and I always assumed it was 'be a teacher' which is what I became.

[Scott Miller]

This discussion of what a sonnet is has definitely come up every time I've looked at the call for submission thread since joining. It's like a Shakespeare play with different actors from the Sphere Theatre Company playing the roles each time: the purist curmudgeon, the (relative) radical, the elder statesperson. It's fun, though. My first semester in grad school I was given a sixteen-line "sonnet". I would have loved to have you lovely people by my side then!

Anyway, what's the story with content? I don't want to sully a nice clean site with my smut, but hey, Philip Larkin and all. "This Be The Verse", e.g.?

[Maryann Corbett]

Anyway, what's the story with content? I don't want to sully a nice clean site with my smut, but hey, Philip Larkin and all. "This Be The Verse", e.g.?

I'm trying to locate the post of Julie Kane's poem about doing it doggy-style, which should give you some reassurance on that score. Be patient for a bit, and I'll come up with it, I'm sure. I think it was 2008.

And here it is.

Editing back to add: And if your question is about specific items of vocabulary, I recall but can't find a Wendy V. poem that featured the line "I am so fucking over you."

(These subjects and words may not confer an advantage, exactly, but if you're asking whether they'll disqualify you, the answer is that they won't, if history is any indication.)

[Scott Miller]

Originally Posted by Maryann Corbett

I'm trying to locate the post of Julie Kane's poem about doing it doggy-style, which should give you some reassurance on that score.

Thank you, Maryann! The poem (and the ensuing discussion of doggy-style mechanics) are definitely reassuring. And what a great poem! I enjoy so many of Julie Kane's sonnets.

Originally Posted by Maryann Corbett

These subjects and words may not confer an advantage, exactly, but if you're asking whether they'll disqualify you, the answer is that they won't, if history is any indication.)

I'm definitely not trying to play "shock jock" to the sonnet tradition either. I just know that some places are a little touchier about it than others, so I tend to ask when I don't know.

Thanks again,
S

[Jennifer Gordon]

Does your summarily removing previously "workshopped" sonnets here if accepted for the competition finalists signify that I can enter my contested beauty you eliminated sometime late '13 or early '14? I am fond of being pesky, but mean no harm as I figure we are all in it together, no matter how prickly different members may find one another. Not like I intended to do so, but the tempting thought was irresistible. I beg pardon if it was rude to ask thus.
Tata,
Miss Jennifer S. Gordon

[Alex Pepple]

Jennifer -- I don't have any recollection of the poem/post you're referring to, so it's probably no issue submitting it now.

...Alex