[Susan McLean]

Welcome, Perry. As you read around in poetry, you will find that there are many types of poetry, and some will be more appealing to you than others are. This poem is written in the plain style (not a lot of ornamentation, but some soundplay and wordplay) and is didactic in focus (which is definitely not in fashion at the moment, but is sometimes the case with short, epigrammatic poems). You are not required to comment on everything, so feel free to limit yourself to the poems that you find you are most receptive to. Telling people what you like or dislike about a poem is helpful, so thanks for that. The most helpful thing you can do is to propose ways that you think the poem can be improved, without just telling the poet to write a different kind of poem.

Susan

[Perry Miller]

Originally Posted by Susan McLean

Welcome, Perry. As you read around in poetry, you will find that there are many types of poetry, and some will be more appealing to you than others are. This poem is written in the plain style (not a lot of ornamentation, but some soundplay and wordplay) and is didactic in focus (which is definitely not in fashion at the moment, but is sometimes the case with short, epigrammatic poems). You are not required to comment on everything, so feel free to limit yourself to the poems that you find you are most receptive to. Telling people what you like or dislike about a poem is helpful, so thanks for that. The most helpful thing you can do is to propose ways that you think the poem can be improved, without just telling the poet to write a different kind of poem.

Susan

Gee, I thought I had left a careful and helpful critique, but it seems not.

First, "didactic" was the word I was looking for but couldn't think of.

I did comment on your poem because I found it "receptive", though I would use the word "accessible". I don't always suggest improvements, preferring instead to just state what I think and let the author take from that what she wants. In this case, I think I implied that you should try to find some clever twist to put in the poem (in my book, cleverness is good in poetry), but I wouldn't dream of proposing specific language. Perhaps what the poem needs is that "change of direction" you mentioned before.

[Matt Q]

Hi Susan,

I like the idea of committed monogamous love as limitation here, as an acceptance of finitude and the inevitability of death. I don't really know if I agree with it or not (or maybe I just don't want to!) but it's striking, and I like that I'm presented with it in this poem.

I'm wondering about the repetition of "it's all the rage". I makes me think that I'm supposed to read it differently the second time. So, first time, "it's fashionable", second time, "it's all the anger" -- but I can't get the latter to fit sense-wise. What's all the rage in this second sense? I don't think that you're saying that committed relationships are full of rage and that one should stay in a rage-filled relationship.

Ah, is it raging against the dying of the light? It's raging/fighting against death that leads to separation/ an aversion to commitment? I guess that fits with love being, "the beginning of our end". If so, an interesting reference, since in the Thomas' villanelle, the raging seemed to be presented as something heroic rather than a weakness.

"delights" of Tinder seems somewhat bland/abstract, and sonically not doing much. I wonder if there's an image/metaphor, or a more sonically pleasing or more slantwise way of conveying the delight/temptations/allure of Tinder here? Maybe something like "All of Tinder's tinsel can't assuage" could convey that what Tinder offers is shiny, gift-wrapped but lacking much substance? OK, maybe not a great example, but maybe something more in that direction?

"limitless choice" hit me the same way -- functional, but not much else going for it; and the deviation from the metre here seems to add to the flat, prosaic feel of the phrase, for me anyway.

best,

Matt

[Perry Miller]

For whatever it's worth, the repetition of "It's all the rage" doesn't bother me. I've done similar things in my own poems.

[Susan McLean]

Perry, I am sorry I came across as criticizing your comments, which was not my intention. I didn't know how much experience you had had with online poetry critique, so I was trying to be helpful. I did find it helpful to hear what you liked, and your not seeing a twist in the repetition of "It's all the rage" was also helping me to see that my intended change of meaning of "rage" was not coming across. I have tried changing it.

Matt, I did mean "rage" to imply "rage against the dying of the light." I don't know whether my new version of the last sentence helps or not, but I thought I would give it a try. I have also tried rewording L4 to make it more visual. "Limitless choice" was inspired by Red Lobster's promotion of offering "endless shrimp," which actually helped to sink the restaurant chain.

Susan

[Roger Slater]

You haven't used "age" for a rhyme, and it seems enough in the ballpark of the poem that I imagine you could find a way to end on it. Just a thought, unless you are committed to ending on a variant of the opening phrase.

[Susan McLean]

Roger, I have always loved the double meaning in "it's all the rage," so if I can get it to work, I would prefer that to switching to "age." I think at this time a lot of people are feeling rage for a variety of reasons, and that they are often unaware of it and of how much it influences their behavior. It's better, I think, to become conscious of the rage than to ignore it.

Susan

[Perry Miller]

Originally Posted by Susan McLean

Perry, I am sorry I came across as criticizing your comments, which was not my intention. I didn't know how much experience you had had with online poetry critique, so I was trying to be helpful. I did find it helpful to hear what you liked, and your not seeing a twist in the repetition of "It's all the rage" was also helping me to see that my intended change of meaning of "rage" was not coming across. I have tried changing it.

Susan, one thing about me you should know. I am a smart person, but I have slow comprehension. It can take me 4 or 5 readings of a poem to fully understand it, while others might grasp the entire meaning in one or two readings. I don't know why I'm like this. Also, if you write intended meanings into your poem, I will pick up on them only if I have similar thought processes. I only like about 3% to 5% of the poetry I read, so I'm a person with specific tastes. I came here because I tend to prefer formalist type poetry, but the ethos here seems a wee bit confrontational. I'll do my best to be supportive and to fit in.

[Susan McLean]

I have reverted to "the rage" in the last line. Even though many people didn't get the shift in meaning, I decided that I preferred it subtler rather than more obvious.

Perry, it has always been rather confrontational here, which is too bad. I think the level of confrontation has increased recently, but my memory is not always reliable. No one expects to get every poem on a first read. Some are harder than others. Some I never understand. But poems are often more effective if they are a bit mysterious. I tend to lean in the direction of clarity, but I have been trying to allow more mystery into my poems.

Susan

[Perry Miller]

Eratosphere's reputation is well known. Do you remember when the Able Muse server exploded? That was the only nuclear device ever detonated in the U.S. I have been hardening myself for this experience all my life. If I endure it, I will get into Stovokor when I die.