Eratosphere Forums - Metrical Poetry, Free Verse, Fiction, Art, Critique, Discussions Able Muse - a review of poetry, prose and art

Forum Left Top

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Unread 06-11-2024, 04:19 PM
Alexandra Baez's Avatar
Alexandra Baez Alexandra Baez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
Posts: 701
Default

Hi, everyone—thanks so much for all the feedback so far. I’ve been in the throes of stage 4 cancer (complicated by GERD) and have just begun the steps preceding treatment, so I apologize ahead of time for any lapses in my communication. Trouble or no trouble, spending time on Eratosphere has been a tremendous buoy in my life, and I don’t want to let it go unless I absolutely have to.

Carl, wow, it’s a special thrill for me if I can mesmerize a person into liking things that they didn’t think they would! However, I wouldn’t really call my rhyme scheme “sporadic.” Except for S3, which has a loose off rhyme, every other line has an “ew” rhyme, and all of these rhymes even start with, or have an internal word that starts with, “s” except for the last rhyme (“clue”).

I’ve had mixed feelings about the subtitle, epigraph, and notes at the end. I definitely don’t want for the presentation to seem too bloated with these, but I was concerned that people might not grasp the full significance of the poem without them. Also, in the interests of integrity, I felt the need to include “paraphrase” after the Emerald Tablet epigraph because that phrase isn’t actually in that book. However, I've been persuaded to remove this epigraph, so now the point is moot.

Why would you prefer the title “Full Sturgeon Moon”? The reason used the title that I did, and included the details that I did, is that not all full sturgeon moons share the characteristics of the one that this poem is based on. Particularly, I wanted to convey that this one was a supermoon, because such moons have a very distinctive, more pronounced energy than standard full moons. In this and many other ways, the August 2022 one was the result of a very specific confluence of circumstances, as described in the note at the bottom. Still, from all the feedback I’ve gotten so far, it sounds like most people don’t care about these details, and feel that my description is apt for any full moon, which to an extent it is.

Personally, I’ve experienced the wide range of effects that a full moon can produce: a year after I wrote this, I stayed up one late August night to try to fine-tune my poem based on what its full moon made me feel, but I found that it had an entirely different energy from the one a year before—it was astonishingly mellow and understated. Dismayed, I actually thought I would have to seriously revise my entire poem based on this new perception—until I did some research and learned about how even full moons that fall at the same time of year have very different energies from year to year.

Hmm, about “trackless”—I see that your opinion has been echoed by some others. I had never heard of star tracks before, so that certainly was not my intent in using this term. I’ll contemplate alternatives. [Update: Siham likes this word for its soundplay with "light-shafts," but I've found another way to achieve this--let me know what you think.]

Ha ha about the mad dog. I do feel that being over the top is the essence of this poem, but maybe I could spin the effect here slightly differently so it doesn't rub you (and possibly others) the wrong way. [Update: I'm trying out "loon" in place of "mad"--I realized there's an opportunity to play with the lunar etymology of the former.] There’s actually nothing over the top about “swallowed Perseids” as I meant it, though—I simply meant that the Perseids, while normally the most brilliant meteor showers of the year, were obscured in 2022 by the light of the supermoon. These two events don’t always coincide.

And I knew that I was stretching comprehension a bit with “witch-kid lot.” Yes, it’s meant to refer to my visions and cast them as the offspring of something witchy.

And yeah, “hem” just sort of jumped out of nowhere at me at one point, suggesting an alternative to the more prosaic line I’d had before. As odd as it sounds, I think it works logically, too, because “hem” is a way of describing the edge of something.

Siham, so nice to hear from you, especially as you spend most of your time here in non-met. I’m so glad that you perceive in this poem a “well-tuned ear,” because it's a quality that I prioritize in poetry. I had not revised anything in the poem before the time you wrote your comment. I’m not sure if I would want to include the explanatory bit at the bottom if I were to try to publish it, and I’m sure that an editor would be a big determining factor there, too. But I’d thought that the details helped to explain the specific energy of this specific full moon, because as I’ve recently learned, each one has its own very distinctive characteristics—as I explained to Carl, above.

Matt, I’m glad this poem got you! Your point is taken about the epigraph—I’m glad that you feel that its message has been adequately conveyed in the poem itself, so I’ve removed it.

I'd already intentionally let the meter of the "askew" line slide out of regularity with its headless first foot--I'd naturally start with "my"--but yes, I could make the metrical cleverness a little less subtle by omitting "normal"; I think I'll try this radical suggestion but add "my" at the beginning so there's only one variation here. Or maybe I could do this but add a trochaic modifier before the last foot.

Quote:
Since the end-word isn't a rhyme-word, maybe there's a different verb? (maybe one that doesn't need "get").
Actually, I’d conceived of “swallowed” as a loose off rhyme with “howled.” I’m not sure that the point of this line is coming across to people generally—as I said to Carl above, it’s that the Perseids, while normally the most brilliant meteor showers of the year, were obscured in 2022 by the light of the supermoon. These two events don’t always coincide, and I thought it was a neat way to emphasize the power of this particular moon. So I'd hoped that the passive tense here emphasizes that the moon and nothing else is in control here. [Update: perhaps "The searing light of Perseids gets swallowed" would be clearer and more effective?]

I’ve changed the semicolon at the end to a colon as per your suggestion. Thanks.

About changing the title to “Full Sturgeon Moon,” please see my comments to Carl about this.

All your other points are well taken, too, and I’ll be mulling them. Thanks so much for the careful and thorough read.

John, thanks, and I’m really glad that you like “the wild, the push” here. It's especially gratifying to me to be able to reach a poet who has poetic preferences and values that in many ways are very different from my own. Common ground is great! I feel that I’ve begun to absorb through osmosis the gestalts of other poets here and elsewhere, which is really intriguing and exciting to me.

Cally, hi, so nice to hear from you! Another crossover from non-met! Yes, based on what you and some others have said, I’ll be reconsidering the peripheral information that I included. I’ve already been persuaded to remove the epigraph. I’m so glad that this poem reached you the way it did.

Mark, I’m very happy that this poem has worked some magic on you, as well. About changing the title to “Full Sturgeon Moon,” please see my comments to Carl about this. And of course, I'd love to hear any additional thoughts you might have. Your comments are dependably trenchant and intriguing.

Joe, wow, I’m really excited that you feel a shift in my approach here--I love growing and morphing as a poet! I, too, felt a new voice emerging here: the moon ensorcelled me, and I strived to let that energy command me as I wrote. I’m also glad you like the title “Moonsqueeze.” I feel that it gives more to the reader than “Full Sturgeon Moon,” as I explained to Carl, above. Oh, I love that term, “well of quicksilver”!

Jim, I’m really happy that you, too, seem to have been captivated by this poem that the moon wrote through me. Yes, I caught a wave. You captured that so keenly—see my comments to Joe, above.

Quote:
The screw/spew/strew/askew/stew/slew/clue rhymes act like a shoelace tightening the fit to be snug just right on the foot.
Oh, what a lovely analogy! Perhaps more than anyone I know, your comments are poetry in their own right.

That’s interesting that you found the first stanza erotic. I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I’m not averse to people taking it so, either. The most important thing to me is that people feel a wild, powerful energy that's both potentially positive and potentially dangerous, and eros definitely has that.

Historically, I never gave much credence to astrology, but the comments I included at the end of the poem so precisely and uncannily fit the way that this moon made me feel that it left me with no doubt that astrology as applied by an expert is really on to something.

Yes, I’ve gone ahead and changed the semicolon to a colon. Thanks for the second vote!

Last edited by Alexandra Baez; 06-12-2024 at 06:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 06-11-2024, 05:19 PM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 2,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
I wouldn’t really call my rhyme scheme “sporadic.” Except for S3, which has a loose off rhyme, every other line has an “ew” rhyme, and all of these rhymes even start with, or have an internal word that starts with, “s” except for the last (“clue”).
Ok, I guess it was the lack of full rhyme that made it feel sporadic to me, and I didn’t hear the “loose off rhyme,” but the shoelace rhyme, as Jim so beautifully put it, is more than enough to keep me happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
Why would you prefer the title “Full Sturgeon Moon”?
Matt said it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Q View Post
The strangeness of mixing sturgeon and moons would fit the poem very well.
It’s just so loony—and yet accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
Ha ha about the mad dog. I do feel that being over the top is the essence of this poem …
True, but I could hear you thinking: How can I crank up this howling dog to Supermoon level? Give it hydrophobia, of course. I’m picking nits off of nits, though, so never mind me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
Historically, I never gave much credence to astrology, but the comments I included at the end of the poem so precisely and uncannily fit the way that this moon made me feel that it left me with no doubt that astrology as applied by an expert is really on to something.
I’ve never given much credence to astrology and still don’t, but I’ve always been spooked by the fact that you can grab any cheap astrology book off the shelf and read me inside out in the chapter on Pisces. I particularly liked a book I had that said, while Pisces women did have some redeeming traits, Pisces men were hopeless dreamers and would never amount to anything.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 06-12-2024, 06:08 AM
Joe Crocker Joe Crocker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: York
Posts: 853
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
Hi, everyone—thanks so much for all the feedback so far. I’ve been in the throes of stage 4 cancer (complicated by GERD) and have just begun the steps preceding treatment, so I apologize ahead of time for any lapses in my communication. Trouble or no trouble, spending time on Eratosphere has been a tremendous buoy in my life, and I don’t want to let it go unless I absolutely have to.
That sounds hard Alexandra. I do hope you have friends and loved ones close, to find your way through. Stay strong.

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 06-12-2024, 06:36 AM
John Riley John Riley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,641
Default

Alexandria, I’m sorry to read about your illness. Please know you are in my thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 06-12-2024, 06:46 AM
Nick McRae Nick McRae is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 351
Default

Hi Alexandra,

Not sure if I've commented on any of yours before, but just wanted to pop in and echo other's comments. I really enjoyed this.

For the sake of critique, I'll add one nit:

Quote:
stack up the witch-kid lot
This portion of the poem and the use of 'witch-kid' threw me out of the poem some. The rest of the poem has me in a kind of magic, ethereal atmosphere, but it feels like witches belong in a different poem. And even the phrase 'witch-kid' itself was a bit confounding.

I guess I'm getting a kind of light, positive, atmospheric sense from everything in the poem but witches, which feel like they introduce something slightly more ominous. But then, now as a I re-read the poem they might be central to what you're trying to convey, so YMMV.

Maybe it's just the phrase 'witch-kid' itself. There's something about it, not sure what that thing is.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 06-12-2024, 08:15 AM
mignon ledgard mignon ledgard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Florida
Posts: 385
Default Alexandra's Super Moon

Alexandra,

Your poem is the best I’ve read in a long while. Usually, a notoriously well-crafted poem may be strong and quite visual, and felt, but this one goes beyond that with intuition. And there’s more.

Because the dog made me think of one of Lorca’s poems, in which there is ‘the Assyrian dog’. In that poem, they are trying to wake up someone so that he can hear the Assyrian dog barking. This took me to search about Lorca’s Assyrian dog. I ran into something new to me: dogs used to be considered more than guards and companions—they were healers, since it was known that dogs’ saliva possesses healing qualities. There is yet another poem of Lorca’s that mentions dogs (and now I understand it better) a child crying so much that they had to call in the dogs to get him to quiet down. In any case, I much prefer the mad dog and the way it comes through, to the more controlled expression in the revision, where I feel it loses attention, while I’d like to see him a little closer.

If your poem were a painting, the only expert I know would say that the dog is the out of the wall thing that is sheer inspiration. But we know better than that now! I usually don’t feel this way about dogs howling in poems, but I feel strongly in favor in this case.

Thank you for this masterpiece.
Your poem will continue to take me to places I haven’t visited before.
It will also be the pause to think of you and wish you well.

~mignon


https://www.worldhistory.org/article...e-nimrud-dogs/

Mark, Joshua J.. "The Nimrud Dogs." World History Encyclopedia. Last modified January 12, 2017. https://www.worldhistory.org/article...e-nimrud-dogs/.

Joshua J. Mark
Joshua J. Mark is World History Encyclopedia's co-founder and Content Director.


In 612 BCE the Neo-Assyrian Empire

Gula, goddess of healing, was closely associated with dogs because of the curative effect of their saliva. People noticed that when a dog was injured it would lick itself to heal; dog saliva was considered an important medicinal substance and the dog a gift of the gods. The dog, in fact, became a symbol of Gula from the Old Babylonian Period (c. 2000-1600 BCE) onward.

Last edited by mignon ledgard; 06-12-2024 at 08:18 AM. Reason: deleted a duplicate two words
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 06-12-2024, 08:02 PM
Alexandra Baez's Avatar
Alexandra Baez Alexandra Baez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
Posts: 701
Default

Carl, thanks for your answers. I wonder what you think of my tweaks. I’m not at all sure about the placeholders in S1L2 or S2L3, but I think the others might be on to something.

I fear I miss your reference in “hydrophobia.”

Yeah, your experience with the Pisces description—I’ve had a similar one with a description of a Taurus-Taurus relationship. But you liked the book that told you you were a hopeless dreamer who would never amount to anything? Come now, that book was not an example of true astrological knowledge.

Joe and John, thanks for your kind words. I’m lucky to have a network of friends whom I never dreamed would step up to help as much as they have--I mean, it's been extraordinary. Sometimes it takes tremendous trial to bring out the sweetest transcendence.

Nick, I believe you said a few words on one of my posts before, and I’m glad you enjoyed this. I’ve been thinking about your comment on the “witch-kid lot.” I had a bit of hesitation with the phrase myself, for both of the reasons you cite. I’m certainly open to alternatives, so I’ll keep thinking.

mignon, wowee! What high praise—thank you! Now that my poem is under a bit of "reconstruction,” I’m feeling more insecure about it than before, so your praise feels a bit under-deserved to me at the moment. But I’ll try to earn it back in my own opinion, at least.

I never knew that about Lorca’s dog, and the dog in this poem has just a cameo appearance. I have heard the bit about dogs’ saliva being curative, though. As a child, I’d heard that it could help assuage the itchiness of mosquito bites. I tried this out with my own dog, but the results were inconclusive. I appreciate your feedback on “mad” vs. “loon.” I’ll see how these two weather the test of time in my perception.

I thank you, too, for your well wishes. If well wishes had the power to enact complete cures, I’m sure I would have been hale and hearty again a long time ago. As it is, though, kind words are vital psychological boosts.

Last edited by Alexandra Baez; 06-13-2024 at 03:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 06-13-2024, 01:39 AM
Carl Copeland Carl Copeland is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 2,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
I wonder what you think of my tweaks. I’m not at all sure about the placeholders in S1L2 or S2L3 …
“Too high to fight” is more interesting, and I may get used to it, but I actually get more impact from the plainness of “on me tonight.” Matt and I disagree on that.

Forget the provisional “briskly,” and keep “slip askew” together. The oddness of “slip askew” originally gave me pause, but I ultimately decided I really like it.

“Chasmic” is nice, but “loon” may be as over the top in terms of word choice as I thought “mad” was in terms of meaning. Have you considered “crazed”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
I fear I miss your reference in “hydrophobia.”
Shows you how out of touch I am. “Hydrophobia” is an old term for rabies. It was thought that fear of water and drinking was a symptom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra Baez View Post
Yeah, your experience with the Pisces description—I’ve had a similar one with a description of a Taurus-Taurus relationship. But you liked the book that told you you were a hopeless dreamer who would never amount to anything? Come now, that book was not an example of true astrological knowledge.
Well, of course those books are crude simplifications from the point of view of a serious astrologer, but they always describe me so well …
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 06-14-2024, 06:45 PM
Mary Meriam's Avatar
Mary Meriam Mary Meriam is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: usa
Posts: 7,687
Default

So glad you lost the epigraph (and hopefully the note). But your revisions haven't improved the poem, which seemed terrific to me to begin with. I was especially distressed that you lost "witch-kid." I'm with those who like Full Sturgeon Moon as the title. When you make this many revisions, it's good to save the original on the thread. I do like the change from semi to colon. I liked "on me tonight" though almost got persuaded out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 06-14-2024, 09:51 PM
Glenn Wright Glenn Wright is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 722
Default

Hi, Alexandra

I’m sorry to be coming late, but wanted to let you know that I enjoyed this poem. I enjoyed watching you work your way through the revisions and think the poem has evolved into a rich and moving piece. I was sorry to hear about your health issues, and send you my best wishes for healing.
Glenn
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Forum Right Top
Forum Left Bottom Forum Right Bottom
 
Right Left
Member Login
Forgot password?
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Statistics:
Forum Members: 8,510
Total Threads: 22,631
Total Posts: 279,157
There are 1910 users
currently browsing forums.
Forum LeftForum Right


Forum Sponsor:
Donate & Support Able Muse / Eratosphere
Forum LeftForum Right
Right Right
Right Bottom Left Right Bottom Right

Hosted by ApplauZ Online