[Jayne Osborn]

Bob,

Thanks for coming back to this. The trouble is, as it's a sonnet I was going for more of a turn with the sestet, rather than have the denouement in the final couplet.

Regarding "really" seeming like filler: I don't know if it's more of a Brit thing, but in everyday speech we frequently say things like "He/she/it really makes me angry", "I really love your shoes", etc. I guess we really say "really" a lot!

Sam,

My dictionary says of "personage"
a person (used to express importance or elevated status).
"it was no less a personage than the bishop"
Similar:
important person
VIP, luminary, celebrity, celebutante, personality


I would argue that Princess Diana is better described as a personage than as a "onetime Royal"; that phrase could be used of so many other more mundane members of the "Firm", as they're known colloquially. Whilst I wasn't a massive fan of hers, it can't be denied that Diana was most certainly of elevated status!

[Joe Crocker]

Originally Posted by Jayne Osborn

I've changed that line, Joe, which I wasn't happy with, so thank you for making me think about it some more. I hope the meaning is more clear now.

Jayne

That works for me Jayne. And although "really" is a filler type word, it is how we speak and sounds natural to me.

[Jayne Osborn]

Hi Joe,
Thanks again. I'm glad that line works for you now.

And although "really" is a filler type word, it is how we speak and sounds natural to me.

As I explained to Bob, above, we Brits really do say "really" rather a lot, for emphasis, don't we?

Jayne

[Yves S L]

We really do!

[Yves S L]

Hello Jayne,

So what I was saying is that I feel that there is so much emotional data to explore for you within this topic, that you could likely keep rewriting the poem to express different emotional emphases or points of view. In my opinion, poems that allow this are the most resonant, because they are really compress a lot of emotionally significant life experience in a short space, so they are sort of bursting at the seems with emotional and metaphorical implications, so much so that it all might not be able to be expressed with just the one poem, though the poem tries.

[Roger Slater]

It doesn't matter, in my opinion, if Brits "really" say really a lot. In normal conversation, we don't speak in rhyming iambic pentameter, and no one cares if a sentence sounds padded to fit the meter, since there is no meter. Typical critiques of poetry call us out all the time for saying things like "quite" and "very," or for using too many modifiers, things that don't trouble us in casual conversation. Using the standards of casual conversation to justify usages in formal verse isn't always a great idea. (And by the way, Americans say "really" quite a bit as well. I've always thought the British relied more heavily on "actually," actually).

[Yves S L]

Conversational speech rhythms versus the formality of iambic pentameter is not that simple a judgement call, where you have one inflexible contextless rule that applies to all circumstances all the time, especially when it comes to the presence or absence of modifiers.

In the context of this poem "really" really did not stand out to me actually, but if I were to have to make up some story about the work it is doing, then the "really" might be giving the emotional emphasis of emotional relief giving the narrator's emotional troubles, as in the narrator really needed the laughter and she really laughed. Does one need that emphasis at that point in time? One only has so many syllables to work with. Does it work or does not work here?

Maybe or maybe not. Is it really that big of a deal actually?

Storm in teapots, or teapots in storms?

[Jayne Osborn]

Bob and Yves,

Well put, both of you. Those are really good posts (and I haven't put "really" just because we're discussing its use); you're right about "actually" as well, Bob.

Thinking about it, with this poem, it didn't occur to me to use "really" as filler, nor for extra emotional emphasis - it's simply what I say, and how I say it, because my husband has always really made me laugh!

It's a bit of a thin line between what's filler and what sounds natural; with the former, I think it tends to jump right out at you, in which case poets will point it out in their critiques. It didn't seem to pose too much of a problem with this particular poem, so I guess it's not a big deal. However, I'm always open to suggestions.

Thanks again.

Jayne

[Jim Moonan]

.
"Really" is an easy word we use for emphasis in conversation. Sometimes we use it as a quantifier or to add a matter of degree and/or sincerity (e.g. "I really, really, really like it when you make me laugh".) You can "make someone laugh" or you can "really make someone laugh". It has the capacity to sound insistent. It's a somewhat inarticulate word, but it has purpose and serves as being more than just a filler. It's an interesting word. I like it and don't like it. It's a maligned word. Maybe deservedly so. But in the context of this poem, it works, imo. Somehow, the entirety of the poem sounds spoken vs. written.

There is a bald-faced boldness and vulnerability to this poem that I really, really, really like. It speaks truthfully without pretense or desire to be poetic. It is the ultimate kind of confessional poem I often try to write but always come off as sounding doomed or morose or self-pitying. Not here. You've managed to be self-effacing and you've lifted a boulder off your shoulder, Jayne. Brava. (And bravo to your husband.)

.

[Jayne Osborn]

Ah, Jim, I'm really touched by the lovely things you said there. Thank you, from both of us!

I think it's time for this one to slide down the board now, but it helped me to get back to writing again ... and yes, to shift that boulder, too!

Cheers,
Jayne