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  #201  
Unread 08-08-2006, 04:47 PM
Mark Granier Mark Granier is offline
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But to the point: is your contention that Israel is engaged in "Total War" against Lebanon?
What's 'total'? Israel has the bomb, so if it were Total War I'd imagine Lebanon would no longer exist, or exist only as patches of scorched, radioactive earth. Suffice to say that the Israeli army is at war with Hezbollah. I believe we can agree on that much.
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  #202  
Unread 08-08-2006, 04:59 PM
Dan Halberstein Dan Halberstein is offline
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Agreed, Mark... and I am tired. I've been doing school between posts, when it should be the other way around

I will, however, drop this piece, a press release from July 30, issued by World Council of the Cedars Revolution. My butt is hanging out in the breeze here - a friend sent me a 7/30 press release, and I have not had the time to check their site. I am sure Israel is much more in their sites by now... but I will look after taking a shelling here!

Dan
------------------------------------------

HEZBOLLAH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MASSACRE

WORLD COUNCIL OF THE CEDARS REVOLUTION www.cedarsrevolution.org

email: cedarsrevolution@gmails.com

Press Release

New York, July 30, 2006

The World Council of the Cedars Revolution, after having observed the security developments in the last 48 hours and the horrific deaths caused by warfare between Hezbollah and Israel on Lebanese territories, and in the area of Qana in particular; and after having reviewed the causes of the civilian casualties, including children and women who were located in a shelter, the Council declares the following:

Its total dismay at the sight of innocent civilians who were killed during an exchange of long range fire between Hezbollah and Israeli forces. These civilians were put in a defenseless posture between the two warring parties, against all laws of war, and were killed and maimed as a result of irresponsible acts of war. Their deaths and the injuries caused by the shelling calls for an immediate investigation by the international community as to the causes of the fight and the particular military acts that lead to the massacre. The Council calls on the United Nations to dispatch a team to the region to investigate this and other incidents where civilians are caught in the firefight, and establishes the reasons for their victimization.
The Council, in view of the history of this conflict, which started by an irresponsible War launched by Hezbollah, without authorization by the Lebanese Government, and triggered harsh Israeli responses causing damages to the people and infrastructure of Lebanon, blames Hezbollah, its leadership and the Syrian and Iranian regimes for dragging Lebanon into the horrors of a suicidal War. The WCCR accuses Hezbollah and its regional allies of intentionally forcing the civil society of Lebanon, and in particularly the communities under the control of Hezbollah's militias, to become a shield for Hezbollah's military operations. By doing so, Hezbollah is breaching international law and must respond to international responsibility. Any military force, which is in control of the security of a civilian population in geographical areas, is responsible for their security. By maintaining that control over south Lebanon and th! e Bekaa valley, Hezbollah, even as a Terrorist organization is responsible for the safety and security of all civilians it has under its control. Hence the WCCR, representing the aspirations of millions of Lebanese inside the country and in its Diaspora, urges the United Nations to take immediate action by dispatching international troops to protect the civilian populations of Lebanon from the effects of the ongoing war on Lebanese territories.
The Council, after reviewing reports from South Lebanon, strongly condemns the deployment by Hezbollah of artillery and rockets in the vicinity of civilian population centers. This tactic, which puts civilians at risk of death and destruction, is a war crime to be sanctioned by international law. The Council attributes the responsibility of the deaths of Lebanese citizens by Israeli fire, to Hezbollah's leadership and to its Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah. For installing guns and launchers just next to a civilian shelter and firing from it, during a military confrontation that already started two weeks ago, is a calculated decision to cause retaliation and deaths, which are being used in the media to further the image of Hezbollah. This tactic, while using the pro-Jihadi media in the region, and abusing the horrific images of corpses of Lebanese citizens, won't change the reality of Hezbollah's responsibility and won't be used to shield Nasrall! ah from the international community or from the popular majority of the Lebanese people.
The Council calls for an investigation of this war crime by questioning Hassan Nasrallah and the Hezbollah militiamen who were deployed at the location of the massacre. The Cedars Revolution is not going to allow Terrorists to use the blood and flesh of Lebanese citizens to shield their organization from disarmament. It won't accept that an entire Lebanese community is taken into hostage by a Pro-Iranian, pro-Syrian organization which aim is to obstruct democracy in Lebanon and reverse the Cedars Revolution.
As expresses its deepest condolences to the families of the massacre's victims, the Council calls on the Lebanese masses to resist the tactics of Terrorism and to upraise against Hezbollah's control of civilian centers. Let M. Nasrallah and his supporters chose another land to wage their personal wars with whomever they want. Lebanon is not their private property to use and abuse. The Council calls on the Lebanese people to mobilize in order to end this suicidal war, even if it is going to take another revolution.


The World Council of the Cedars Revolution

Joe Baini, President, Australia

Tom Harb, Secretary General for UNSCR 1559, USA

Dr Anis Karam, President World Lebanese Cultural Union

Fady Bark, Secretary General, World Lebanese Cultural Union

Attorney John Hajjar, North American director, USA

Attorney Joanne Fakhre, Director Caribbean Region

Toni Nissi, Coordinator Committee 1559, Lebanon

Sami Khoury, Chairman, Hispanic America

George Chaya, Media Chairman, Latin America

Iskandar Riachi, Secretary, Cedars Revolution, Brazil

Roni Doumit, Secretary General, WCCR, Europe

Kamal El-Batal, Human-rights, WCCR
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  #203  
Unread 08-08-2006, 05:33 PM
Kevin Andrew Murphy Kevin Andrew Murphy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Halberstein:
But to the point: is your contention that Israel is engaged in "Total War" against Lebanon?
It's my suspicion that Israel is planning to bite off the bottom third of Lebanon, and to that end, is peppering the countryside with just enough bombs to make the terrified citizens flee like frightened ants. Anyone who stays behind can be killed or arrested as "Hezbollah terrorists" and Israel has a new swatch of territory to do with as she pleases--useful for many things, including a "security zone" in the short term, and in the long term, as a bargaining chip if she ever gets around to formally making a Palestine (which everyone has been pressuring her to do). Especially since the Palestinians keep bitching about is they'd like some beachfront property, and look, here's some beachfront property now!

Of course, that's merely a suspicion, based on Israel's past history of territory acquisition and displaced civilians.
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  #204  
Unread 08-08-2006, 05:48 PM
Robert J. Clawson Robert J. Clawson is offline
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Originally posted by Dan Halberstein:

"But to the point: is your contention that Israel is engaged in "Total War" against Lebanon?"

Don't know what that means. They're certainly not engaged in "surgical strikes." Hezbollah is a Shiite guerilla group. They're the alleged target. However, Lebanese Christians make up 40% of the populace and they're under fire. Isreal has effectively cut off the whole country from the outside world. They've bombed it in every quadrant. I don't find this retaliation what one would call "selective."

Bob
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  #205  
Unread 08-08-2006, 05:53 PM
Dan Halberstein Dan Halberstein is offline
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Kevin, I'm sure people will breathe a sigh of relief at this... but I can't get into it in depth at the moment.

Suffice it to say, the vast majority of land Israel has ever exercised authority over -- including Israel proper --has been ceded to Arabs. Israel is trying to give back more land, in Gaza and the West Bank. The results of those efforts are self-evident.

On the subject of those displaced from Israel proper in 1948, primarily by invading Arab armies, the depth required outstrips the time allotted.

Although your theory may have a certain je ne sais quois for the Evil Israel camp, for me it just has a certain je ne sais pourquois. One can suspect what one wants, but without a scintilla of evidence to that effect, the theory carries as much weight as belief in fraternal lodges manipulating currency exchage rates. That is, none.

Suffice it to say that Hezbollah, Lebanon, and Israel all share one aim, the withdrawl of all Israelis from Lebanon. Israel, however, includes the two individuals kidnapped at the start of this mess. Israel also wants Hezbollah disarmed, as agreed to by Hezbollah and by Lebanon.

Come to think of it, it sounds like we all agree here.

Dan
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  #206  
Unread 08-08-2006, 06:16 PM
Kevin Andrew Murphy Kevin Andrew Murphy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Halberstein:
Suffice it to say that Hezbollah, Lebanon, and Israel all share one aim, the withdrawl of all Israelis from Lebanon. Israel, however, includes the two individuals kidnapped at the start of this mess. Israel also wants Hezbollah disarmed, as agreed to by Hezbollah and by Lebanon.

Come to think of it, it sounds like we all agree here.
Cool! Then why aren't they doing that?

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  #207  
Unread 08-08-2006, 07:27 PM
Dan Halberstein Dan Halberstein is offline
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I don't know, but I do know this: anybody who'll put popups on other peoples' websites are capable of anything!
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes

Dan
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  #208  
Unread 08-08-2006, 08:27 PM
Robert Meyer's Avatar
Robert Meyer Robert Meyer is offline
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We are talking about every but the 'elephant' in the room. The prophet said if your brother is hungry and you have plenty, you must feed him. Same with Jesus. Same with Amos. Same with Joel. But the oil Sheiks do not feed the hungry. Do they give Palestinians jobs with a fare wage? No, it's cheaper to buy them a gun.

Gun is good. Gun is God. I pray to gun, for gun is holy. Let me bow down to you and kiss you, gun.

...the usual 'Charlton Heston' garbage. I've seen Arab high rollers here in Vegas; and just like each and every other high roller, all of them think their riches make them special.

Robert Meyer
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  #209  
Unread 08-08-2006, 09:05 PM
Daniel Haar Daniel Haar is offline
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Robert,

Which "oil Sheiks" are you referring to? I am pretty sure the Saudis have made it quite clear that they hate and would never support Hezbollah. Its only supporters, materially, are Syria and Iran. The former has no oil, and the latter isn't Arab and has no "sheiks." I don't think you've described the elephant very well.

- Daniel
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  #210  
Unread 08-09-2006, 07:37 AM
Dick Morgan Dick Morgan is offline
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Kevin--a while back you asked who were the Hezbollahs? According to a captured "fighter" they were trained and armed in Iran.

Dick
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