[Anne Bryant-Hamon]

Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
John, I agree about Mugabe, but I also reckon Tony Blair, George Bush and John Howard are mass-murderers. Over a million Iraqi dead and four million refugees. That's a pretty high score. Torture? Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo Bay. Rigged elections? Florida 2000. My point is that we all live under some form or other of undemocratic government that does vile things. Certainly there are degrees of vileness, but let's not assume that we are cleanskins and they are shockers. Some countries have more of the crap than others, that's all. I can get arrested for expressing opinions about various subjects, for example, in most western 'democracies'. I can disappear for weeks without trial for expressing opinions in (post-)Blair Britain and (post-)Howard Oz and probably in PATRIOT Act USA for all I know. Ain't that what dictatorships are supposed to do? We're all in the hands of a ruling few. Tacitus knew.

Absolutely right on, Paul. And I always appreciate when you post these reminders that help to keep us aware of the plight of us all who live under varying degrees of tyranny. I think it is perfectly valid to fear being arrested by our governments for (only God knows what) - out of the blue. While some people believe that could never happen. Yes it can and does! Let us remain vigilant and aware of the civil rights that have been trampled underfoot in recent years.

Anne

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by Janet Kenny:
What do you hope to achieve by boycotting Diane? For the ordinary Chinese people and for international peace?

Probably the same thing you hoped to achieve by not going to Spain or South Africa or Burma or Fiji - a personal stance against whatever you perceive as injusice foistered upon a society ruled by some form of dictatorship.

Truthfully, Janet, what good did your staying out of Spain or South Africa do for the ordinary citizens in those places? Do you think one person's absence was even noted?
Whereas in China there is a huge possibility of a whole lot of people making personal statements by not attending the upcoming Olympic Games - and that adds up to leaving a mark, unlike an individual's lone refusal to visit and/or work somewhere.

[This message has been edited by Laura Heidy-Halberstein (edited July 19, 2008).]

[Dan Halberstein]

I just went to Chicago, and found that despite the machine politics rumored to be rampant in that city, the christening was lovely. Well okay the baby was colicky and screamed bloody murder through the whole thing, but hell, whattaya expect. The church baptising the baby believed in the little dab'll do ya theory rather than the waterboard theory of baptism, so I am fairly certain nobody could really charge oppression. The people were warm and friendly. The pizza was a little greasy, but I do not think that could be called a human rights violation.

As to the hair-splitting on comparative boycotts, I honestly can't fault anybody for boycotting China, hopeless as it is. In case you haven't noticed, they're an economic superpower. The U.S., at the moment, is pondering whether to add half again to an already gargantuan debt. Guess what, folks? If China sneezes, we get a cold. That includes U.S. satellites too, my holier-than-thou friends in England, Australia, and elsewhere.

What can I say? They're improving, but only because violent deaths in China in the previous century were in the tens of millions. They've got a death penalty, and mobile vans where they carry it out. The U.S. has a death penalty, and a mobile position on judgments rendered in the Hague.

Get it out of your system and boycott something if you want. Or urge a boycott if you discover you're not consuming the product (the Olympics) being boycotted. Hell, throw in boycotts of pretty much all manufactured goods while you're at it.

I remember having a sort of crisis of conscience when Paul Simon traveled to S. Africa in "defiance" of the Great Civilized World Boycott of the Late 80s... as I recalled, he went to play with Ladysmith Black Mambazo, either in advance of the "Graceland" album or thereafter.

Does it matter that Simon was highlighting(/exploiting) the musical diversity that gives THE PEOPLE value in the eyes of others? I have no idea. It seems that the collaboration made some westerners look at Africa as containing real people, because the music touched their lives. But I might be wrong, if in fact there is some sort of "impactmeter" by which we can objectively measure right or wrong in such matters.

I also remember the whole brouhaha about skipping olympics in the 80s because the bad guys invaded Afghanistan... then the bad guys skipped ours because we did something else they painted as imperialistic... now we want to boycott China because they're still pretty much what they've been for a half century or so (though less so than they have been in the past.)

But somehow everybody was fine with Berlin in the 30s. It's one of America's finest sports/newsclips: watching a guy who couldn't live where he wanted or ride in the front of the bus or use the same restroom as a white man back home, kick the tar out of Hitler's so-called master race.

That'll learn 'em!

The point, such as it is, is this: what if Jesse Owens et al. had boycotted Berlin? Would World War II have been averted, after such a show of strength? Would the Holocaust not have happened? Would the oppressed in Germany have been treated differently, if we said "We are super super serial... if you don't straighten up and fly right, we wont race against you?"

As to the spectator boycott proposed here: I am fairly certain the seats will not go unfilled. It's the farkin Olympics.

Good to see you guys again.

D

[Janet Kenny]

Originally posted by Laura Heidy-Halberstein:
Probably the same thing you hoped to achieve by not going to Spain or South Africa or Burma or Fiji - a personal stance against whatever you perceive as injusice foistered upon a society ruled by some form of dictatorship.

Truthfully, Janet, what good did your staying out of Spain or South Africa do for the ordinary citizens in those places? Do you think one person's absence was even noted?
Whereas in China there is a huge possibility of a whole lot of people making personal statements by not attending the upcoming Olympic Games - and that adds up to leaving a mark, unlike an individual's lone refusal to visit and/or work somewhere.

Lo, probably all my not going to Spain did was to deprive me of the Spanish experience although some respected Spanish journalists say that the homogenised experience during Franco's reign was not the Spanish experience.

Not going to South Africa did make a stronger protest since it involved agents and inconvenience to theatre managers and announced changes to a cast list so there were tiny ripples in the pond.

When CATHY FREEMAN wore the Aboriginal flag at the Commonwealth games she contributed a great deal to a sense of embarrassment among racists. By attending the Olympic Games individuals can quietly achieve the same sort of thing in various non-violent ways.

I just saw a news report on TV showing elderly Chinese people being knocked about while their homes were demolished to make way for flower beds for the Olympics in one case and a tower block in the other. By attending the games and showing solidarity with these people much more will be achieved.

The Labor movement around the world is spoiling for a fight with China, for economic reasons, and this is being manipulated unscrupulously by politicians. We've had enough of war. Let's use our brains instead.

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by Janet Kenny:
I just saw a news report on TV showing elderly Chinese people being knocked about while their homes were demolished to make way for flower beds for the Olympics in one case and a tower block in the other. By attending the games and showing solidarity with these people much more will be achieved.

How on earth does attending the games show solidarity with the people whose houses were demolished to make room for us??? All it does is show them that we believe our comfort for a few days is more important to us than their lifelong homes were to them. That's hardly my idea of solidarity.

My boss is Chinese - his grown son wanted to go to China last summer for a visit - my boss and his wife were hysterical at the idea. Even tho he speaks the language and has traveled extensively to other countries, they were convinced he'd never make it back here alive. They know the government much better than you or I ever will.

[Janet Kenny]

double post sorry

[This message has been edited by Janet Kenny (edited July 19, 2008).]

[Janet Kenny]

Some people are planning to wear Tee shirts as they walk around the city. And gestures can be made by athletes on the podium. As Dan said (unscrupulous use of spouse against spouse Jesse Owens did a fine thing at the Munich Games. It didn't stop what happened afterwards but it is still a solid accusation against the barbarians. Cathy Freeman did a lot to make racist Australians ashamed and helped to nourish essential changes in this society.

[Laura Heidy-Halberstein]

Originally posted by Janet Kenny:

Some people are planning to wear Tee shirts as they walk around the city. And gestures can be made by athletes on the podium.

Right....and who's going to see these Tee shirts and gestures, Janet?


Reports indicate they (China's Olympic organizers) intend to restrict live broadcasts from Beijing's Tiananmen Square during the Olympic period to two narrow time slots per day: 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. and 9 p.m. till 11 p.m., local time.

Authorities want to keep a tight rein on Tiananmen. They fear it could become a focal point for potential protests.

But some observers were never persuaded by the promises of press freedom in the first place.

"I don't think complete freedom is possible," says Li Datong, the blunt-speaking, former editor of a leading government paper who is now one of China's most insightful commentators.

"If nothing happens and you go out and do normal reporting on the Games, obviously you're going to enjoy `complete freedom.' Who is going to restrain sports reporting?

"But if something happens, like a protest – there's going to be a problem."

Here in Beijing the possibility of protests seems to grow slimmer by the day as security in and around the city continues to tighten.

This week a cordon of checkpoints was established around Beijing.

Weeks ago a security force of 100,000 was put on alert inside the capital.

And still the potential for protest during the Games remains a Chinese leadership obsession – a nightmare waiting in the wings.

That's not because protests never happen. Tens of thousands of protests and riots occur in China every year. But the Chinese government keeps such tight control on the domestic media that few protests ever get reported.

The government's obsession is due to the arrival of 25,000 additional foreign journalists and the likelihood that any protest will be beamed instantly around the world – and the Chinese government would lose face.

"International media coverage is mainly about mianzi (face)," explains Li.

And so are these Games.

While conventional wisdom dictates the Games are being staged for the athletes and for sport, Li knows different.

"They're for the Chinese government of course. It's quite obvious," he says. "The Chinese government is doing this for its image – and nothing else."

Their aim, he says, is to gain "greater acceptance" and "greater influence" in the wider world.

And so it will do everything in its power to head off protest, including ensuring Tiananmen Square is almost impenetrable.
http://olympics.thestar.com/2008/article/463474

They've already silencing their own dissenters:

With fewer than 200 days before the Aug. 8 opening ceremonies, Beijing is in the full throes of preparations. Roads and subway lines are being completed, and the city's new sports stadiums are nearly finished. But with more than 20,000 journalists expected for the Games, Beijing is also tightening controls over information.

Early this month, the authorities announced that only state-sanctioned companies would be allowed to broadcast video and audio files on the Internet, although the practical effect of this edict remains unclear. China has also extended a crackdown on Internet pornography and "unhealthy" content that some rights groups consider a tool for arresting online dissidents. China has jailed 51 online dissidents — more than any other country — and last year blocked more than 2,500 Web sites, according to Reporters Without Borders, a press freedom advocacy group.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/...9dissident.php

BEIJING–In the darkest of ironies, as the Olympic torch was lit in Athens yesterday, a court in China sentenced a man to five years in prison after he dared to say the principle of human rights is more important than the Olympic Games.

Unemployed former factory worker, Yang Chunlin, 54, gathered more than 10,000 signatures on a petition last year, appealing against illegal seizures of land from poor farmers by powerful local officials in the northeastern province of Heilongjiang.

The petition letter began: "We want human rights, not the Olympics."

Yang was promptly arrested July 6 and charged with trying to subvert state power – a broad charge frequently used against those who openly criticize the government.

After Yang's trial last month – which lasted less than a day – Sophie Richardson of Human Rights Watch said she feared that, "soon it will be official that objecting to the Olympics is a crime in China."
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/350435

[Janet Kenny]

Lo,
We shouldn't talk it up. What individuals do will be done when and where it's opportune.
Janet

[Mark Allinson]

When the Chinese Communist party proclaimed the “one-child policy” – a rational, socialist measure to check population growth – they didn’t take into account the ancient ingrained belief of the peasant masses that a male child is always preferable to a female child, resulting in decades of selective abortion of female fetuses.

In other words, when it came to cultural revolution and “re-education” of the masses, the tabulas of the people were not, apparently, entirely rasa. The old beliefs grew out of the experiences of thousands of years of hard living. Today there are something like 35 million more men in China than women.

All that testosterone boiling away with no place to go, together with the pressures of a burgeoning economy and a lack of raw materials, is a bit of a worry. "Make Love not War", says the old slogan. But when there's no one at home to "love" ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6962650.stm