[John Whitworth]

I'll have you know my wife is half Irish, was born in Limerick and had an Uncle who was Mayor of that fair city and gunned down on his own doorstep by the Black and Tans. Game, set and match I would have thought.

[Kevin Greene]

My people are from County Galway. I still feel the heartache, though I'm just a dumb American. But I shake my head at the bitterness. My grandfather seemed to support American isolationism during World War II only because he didn't want the English as allies.

Edit: My father and I were in an "Irish" pub here in the States. (You know the kind, I'm sure. All in the Irish manner ... as us Yanks understand it.) He rather innocently recited the charm "twenty-six and six" and the owner stared in a cold fury and stated, "Never."

[Kevin Greene]

Originally Posted by John Whitworth

Ive selected English (Ireland). How do you suppose that differs from English (United Kingdom)? Does anyone know? Could anyone hazard a guess?

John, you've got me interested. So far I've only found this, and it's not from an authority:

Is there a Microsoft word that can spell check Irish slang?
You know words like eegit, gobshite, feck etc.

Or like old terms like Tir Na Nog

It doesn’t even recognise Da. I do not use that word but I am just after reading a book, which used that word a lot.

There is an English (Ireland) in Microsoft word but it mostly only has place names.

If they recognise a word like thingamajig in their dictionary which very few people use why can’t they update the other words?

Kevin

[Quincy Lehr]

John--

English (Ireland) is, to my knowledge, identical to English (UK)--indeed, my work computers while in Ireland always had English (UK) set as the default.

Quincy

[Jerome Betts]

That's what I suspected, Quincy. However, I tried correct and incorrect versions of 'taoiseach' in both English and Irish settings and English (UK) underlined the correct spelling but put nothing under the incorrect one, while English (Ireland) underlined both. I wonder what English (Zimbabwe) or English (Indonesia) would do?

John, your mention of your wife's antecedents reminded me that:

I once knew a lady interested in breeding who claimed to be 'related to half Megavissey',
A claim which caused something of a tiff, tantrum or tizzy,
Merely because I then asked her a genealogical question important enough to be bound, as it were, in verbal tooled gilt calf -
Yes, but WHICH half?

[Richard Meyer]

When examining scansion and metrics in formal poetry, most of us who visit and post on this site, I think, are able to discriminate between the purely novice or inept handling of meter and the more accomplished use of metrical feet. Generally, extremes are easily noticed, as in the difference between two clumsy, awkward adolescents lurching across the floor at a high school prom and a pair of trained ballroom dancers gliding through a waltz.

Some of the most intense debate and disagreement over the prosody of a particular poem occurs when a writer who has obviously studied and labored at the craft, a writer who possesses apparent skill and talent, takes greater liberties with meters and rhythms than other qualified writers and readers are willing to accept. Such difference of opinion is desirable. It should be embraced and welcome.

In such cases of differing views and differing ears, however, I remind myself to avoid being rash and imprudent in declaring that a particular line, passage, or entire poem is flat out wrong because conventional metrics have been altered or transformed in ways not readily agreeable to me.

The established masters in the canon offer us a beautiful and expansive range of metrical observance and metrical noncompliance. And they also offer beneficial examples that illustrate how at times we may be inaccurate in our initial assessment of a writer who uses language in an especially malleable manner.

For example, consider the history of John Donne’s reputation. One critic has written that “no other poet currently so admired has fallen from favor for so long and been so condemned as inept and crude.” Even the famous Ben Jonson, a friend and admirer of Donne, said that “Donne for not keeping accent deserved hanging.”

Isn’t that a wonderful literary anecdote? Isn’t it telling?

Richard

[Holly Martins]

As someone here has mentioned - and it needs mentioning again - if we could hear poets reading their poems a great deal of the metrical problems we perceive in their work would fall away. Even within 50 miles from where I live there are regional variations in speaking that can add or subtract a syllable, speed up or slow down, or skim over or prolong a phrase. The fun of metrics is to stretch what can be done within the line, and sometimes on the page this variation doesn't always come across. Of course it has to be said 99% of poems are read not heard, but it's worth thinking about.

[Kevin Greene]

Originally Posted by Holly Martins

Of course it has to be said 99% of poems are read not heard...

And that's a shame.

[Ann Drysdale]

Going back to the original question. Where does it say anywhere in the rubric that spell-check is expected? What is obvious to a newcomer is that more preparation of text is expected in TDE so perhaps for Metrical itself there should be a few gentle guidelines as to the state/standard expected. I realise I've used the word "expected" three times.

One of the hardest things for the joiner of any group is to second-guess the expectations of the established members. Would it hurt to help them?

I am acting as Devil's advocate here. As an "established" poet, I would not dream of posting anything that wasn't as good as I could get it on my own before asking for the input - or reaction (thank you, Janet) - of others. The reason I haven't started a thread so far is that I have just had a book published and I didn't have anything left to submit for criticism that fulfilled my own criteria. Or the Sphere's - my choice was vanity posting or offering suspect crap - either would have breached the protocols as I perceived them and insulted the community of poets I have come to admire and respect.

But if really were a newcomer? A "wannabee" as someone said in a different forum (though I'd have spelt it with a single "e"). How would I have known what Eratosphere expected?

My first critical posts here were ingenuous and ill-judged. I was helped by moderators and several generous poets to remedy that. But I soon found myself peering into other forums to find out who was who and what they believed. And I often wish I hadn't.

I want to offer in my turn the generosity of spirit that was offered to me when I first entered Eratosphere. I am now struggling in my own head - not for the first time - with the difference between élitism and excellence. I want to go back to the poetry.

[Janice D. Soderling]

Re Kevin (post 58).

FYI. It is possible to add an audio file, if the poet so wishes. Give it a go.